. . . if anyone's still interested.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/6/1/184125/3635/912/526905
I don't know exactly where it went wrong for me. Actually, initially, it was more just a liking for Obama, the way he talked just seemed more natural and sincere than what Hillary was saying. And the "change" that he promised seemed, at the beginning, believable. I started to feel he would be better than Hillary, more in touch with what the Democratic Party was supposed to be. That he was change and she was same-ole-same-ole.
At some point, I got the sense that Hillary felt she was being out-flanked on her left, but she couldn't get to the left of Obama, because SHE had voted for the war and Obama was against it right from the start. So she had to attack him from the right, and THAT was where (figuratively speaking, of course) she lost my vote. Well, I would have already chosen him over Hillary, but with a lot of love and respect for the Hilster at that point, but once she began attacking Obama from the right, she became Republican Hillary, one of THEM. That's when I wrote her off.
But as long as he kept his zipper up, he was always an asset to any campaign. Why was he such a loser in this one? I've seen a couple of articles suggesting he hates to play second fiddle and was deliberately (but maybe subconsciously) sabotaging Hillary.
I think it is pretty obvious that Juniorbush has polorized Democrats within the Democratic Party.
And the effect of that polarization is?
An increasing inability to garner bi-partisan support for legislation, and an increase in proposals that are more extreme than moderate.
And the effect of that polarization is?
An increasing inability to garner bi-partisan support for legislation, and an increase in proposals that are more extreme than moderate.
Which largely began before he even took the oath of office, with cries of stolen election. Face it Fat, Bush HAD a reputation of working with Dems, and Conservatives knew before hand he was no real Reagan conservative, and often pulled Democrat-lite/like executive decisions, but the DC democrats had little to no intention of working with him on anything, outside of hard line liberal causes, such as Education, that he also endorsed
The effect of the polarization has been that Obama, who is perceived as being a new face ad approach to politics, has been favored over Hillary, who has been associated more with politics as usual.
The polarization began at the very beginning of the Clinton administration, with the Whitewater investigation, and the attempt to impeach Clinton, even though the GOP knew from the beginning that they did not have the votes.
McCain is certainly a typical politician. Straight talk express, my ass.
"...I really wish someone would do a little Swift-Boating on his so-called "torture" in Viet Nam...."
<<Yes , what exactly made it easy for Swift Boat Veterans for Truth to wound Kerry , What would make it hard for the big money behind the Dems to do the same?>>
Fear. If the Republicans pull that shit, they get some editorial tut-tutting them, but if the Democrats pull that shit,one of them will wind up dead.
<<Seems far fetched.>>
I don't think so. Does it seem far-fetched to you that the victims of American political assassinations or attempts are all on the liberal side of the spectrum, or that the only one to the right of centre (Wallace) was threatening to siphon votes from the right-wing favourite in a close election?
<<Would it not be a simpler explanation that many of Kerrys comrades were displeased with him , but few of McCains>>
Now THAT is far-fetched. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think all the guys on Kerry's boat backed him up. It was only higher officers and captains of other boats in the area that Swift-Boated him. There would necessarily have been a much tighter bond between the captain and crew of a swift boat who must live together and more importantly fight together in cramped quarters for weeks at a time, whereas a fighter pilot is of necessity a more solitary fighter. Fights alone, dies alone, gets shot down alone.
"Senator John Kerry has made his 4-month combat tour in Vietnam the centerpiece of his bid for the Presidency. His campaign jets a handful of veterans around the country, and trots them out at public appearances to sing his praises. John Kerry wants us to believe that these men represent all those he calls his "band of brothers."
But most combat veterans who served with John Kerry in Vietnam see him in a very different light. "
Obama is not a "typical" politician. You can say it all you want, it will never be true.
McCain is certainly a typical politician. Straight talk express, my ass.
If i understand you correctly there is a partisanship fatigue that is leading people to favor Obama as a relief mechanism.
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I simply said that Obama is less like the usual politician, and that Democrats have grown tired of usual politicians, and therefore tend to favor Obama.
Obviously, Obama is a politician. He would be a terrible senator or president if he were not. But he was against the Iraq War from the start, and he is as close to a White guy as a Black guy in America could be: raised by Whites and perhaps Indonesians in Indonesia and Hawaii, and then Kansas. He does not have the Black accent, he lacks the preachy style of speaking, and he is not Southern in any way.
So who identifys with him?
QuoteSo who identifys with him?
I know I do...Further, as much as the right likes to paint him as a liberal (and he is in some ways), he is really a moderate.
ROFL........I needed a good chuckle to start the day. In "some" ways?? :D Thanks, Brass
Sorry, he's going to win in November, might want to get used to the idea now.
Obama's brand may be a new beginning for ALL Americans but his supporters seem to not be taking his message to heart.
Even when the Clinton's were kneecapping him, he didn't get down in the mud.
ROFL........I needed a good chuckle to start the day. In "some" ways?? :D Thanks, Brass
You guys did the same thing with Howard Dean, tried to paint him as Dennis Kucinich when he's really a moderate who's willing to listen to the other side of the aisle to find solutions that work for everyone.
How is being positive about his electivity "getting down in the mud"?
Are you being positive about his electability or are you building him up by tearing down his opposition.
Isn't that the way it has been over the last 20 years, since Bork got Borked.
You didn't make any comments about 8 years of Bush in this thread?
Oh, I'm sorry. Is Bush running for a third term?
In a democratic primary Bush's polarizing abilities ae not in the equation.
I think when Bill inserted himself into the campaign, people remembered what a polarizing figure he was. They also realized that he came with Hillary if she was elected. They also knew that GOP partisans would love a Clinton Whitehouse because they wouldn't need to behave during the standard six month honeymoon most newly elected get and they could start payback for 6 years of Bush Bashing immediately. Voters, especially young ones had already endured 16 years of partisan bickering and they aren't so anxious for another 4 or 8.
Obama didn't bring that kind of baggage. Nor that brand of politicking.
The effect of the polarization has been that Obama, who is perceived as being a new face ad approach to politics, has been favored over Hillary, who has been associated more with politics as usual.
QuoteSo who identifys with him?
I know I do.
Obama is sort of embodying what Americans need to come together right now. I have said for years and years that in order for white people and black people to come to understand each other and be comfortable with each other, we are going to have to have more interacial couples that have children that grow up and become famous.
There have been lots of mixed race children that is true but we need more of them to become famous so that Americans will want to lay claim to them, if you will. If black folks and white folks can look at a star or politician or CEO and say, "Hey, he's one of us." it will lead to unity. Obama is the son of an interracial couple. Black father, white mother. Yes, he looks black but he is of both races. He embodies harmony between the races.
Further, as much as the right likes to paint him as a liberal (and he is in some ways), he is really a moderate. He wants to make sure everyone has health care but he's not in favor of a single payer system. He was against the war and still is but he's not going to order the troops out in 30 days once he's elected (and, I must admit, I fear he may not draw them down substantially for a long time).
Over the next few months, you're going to hear him articulate his stances in much more defined terms than you have during the primary because he is going to want to appeal to ALL voters in ways that ALL voters will feel like they are getting something rather than being listened to and then pissed on (like the left has felt for the past 8 years with "president" Bush).
This is the most preposterous load I have ever read: It is feel-good liberalism at its politically correct worst.
What people need to come together is a sense of humor and intelligence. Nothing more, nothing less.
Also: Obama borders on socialist. Which is why I am voting, for the first time, against the party.
(Everyone knows that another face can never be added to MR without endangering the whole sculpture. Right?)
(Everyone knows that another face can never be added to MR without endangering the whole sculpture. Right?)
As is usually the case with "everyone knows" - that is incorrect.
In reality, the original designer had intended to also put Susan B. Anthony up there, but Congress cut off funding for another image. Also, there was more work planned, including a history of the US carved into the mountain and a hall of records, but the designer died before they could be completed.
In reality, the original designer had intended to also put Susan B. Anthony up there, but Congress cut off funding for another image. Also, there was more work planned, including a history of the US carved into the mountain and a hall of records, but the designer died before they could be completed.
I know I saw a park ranger on the news one night saying that Rushmore should never, will never and can never be altered.
This is the most preposterous load I have ever read: It is feel-good liberalism at its politically correct worst.
Uh, Ok, whatever.What people need to come together is a sense of humor and intelligence. Nothing more, nothing less.
Uh-huh.Also: Obama borders on socialist. Which is why I am voting, for the first time, against the party.
And where are you getting this idea that Obama is a Socialist? Rush? Sean? O'Reilly? I mean, if you have some real proof, please tell me what it is because I would love to feel a lot better about supporting this great and wise man.(http://www.edinformatics.com/inventions_inventors/Kool-AidMan.jpg)
I can't wait for Obama to get into the White House. The fallout of his not delivering on all of his promise-full poetry will disillusion an entire generation.
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Yeah, let's all vote for Bob Barr and get a real dose of reality...
You fail to realize that it is the vision that is what inspires us. Once the vision is attained, we are jaded and could care less.
For example, way back before Jesus, leprosy was the scourge of mankind. Anyone could catch it and be condemned to spend the rest of their life as a truly untouchable pariah. Jesus cured a handful of lepers and it was a miracle.
Now leprosy is not a threat to anyone in the developed world. It is not a part of the vision. Neither is a chicken in every pot and a car in every gareage and a color teevee.
It is the vision that matters, not the attaining of that vision. All those dudes on Mt Rushmore managed to do this, even though all had their personal defects-lots of them.
So for Obama to be successful, all he has to do is to keep the eyes on the prize and the vision seem attainable. FDR., LBJ and even old wrinkly Reagan, managed to do this for people in their time. Obama can be at least as able as they were if he chooses the right advisers and gives the right speeches.
One thing I think everyone can agree on is that Bob Barr has about as much charisma as an Oldsmobile Achieva with a busted turbo.
I don't want a charismatic leader. I want an effective one.