Author Topic: Obama throws Israel under the Bus  (Read 128027 times)

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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #315 on: May 29, 2011, 06:28:32 PM »


What Obama did to Israel

By Charles Krauthammer

May 26, 2011

Every Arab-Israeli negotiation contains a fundamental asymmetry: Israel gives up land, which is tangible; the Arabs make promises, which are ephemeral. The long-standing American solution has been to nonetheless urge Israel to take risks for peace while America balances things by giving assurances of U.S. support for Israel?s security and diplomatic needs.

It's on the basis of such solemn assurances that Israel undertook, for example, the Gaza withdrawal. In order to mitigate this risk, President George W. Bush gave a written commitment that America supported Israel absorbing major settlement blocs in any peace agreement, opposed any return to the 1967 lines and stood firm against the so-called Palestinian right of return to Israel.
 
President Barack Obama warned America's pro-Israel lobby on Sunday that the Jewish state will face growing isolation without a credible Middle East peace process. (May 22)

For 2 years, the Obama administration has refused to recognize and reaffirm these assurances. Then last week in his State Department speech, President Obama definitively trashed them. He declared that the Arab-Israeli conflict should indeed be resolved along ?the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps.?

Nothing new here, said Obama three days later. "By definition, it means that the parties themselves, Israelis and Palestinians, will negotiate a border that is different from 1967".

It means nothing of the sort. "Mutually" means both parties have to agree. And if one side doesn't? Then, by definition, you're back to the 1967 lines.

Nor is this merely a theoretical proposition. Three times the Palestinians have been offered exactly that formula, 1967 plus swaps, at Camp David 2000, Taba 2001, and the 2008 Olmert-Abbas negotiations. Every time, the Palestinians said no and walked away.

And that remains their position today: The 1967 lines. Period. Indeed, in September the Palestinians are going to the United Nations to get the world to ratify precisely that  a Palestinian state on the '67 lines. No swaps.

Note how Obama has undermined Israel's negotiating position. He is demanding that Israel go into peace talks having already forfeited its claim to the territory won in the '67 war, its only bargaining chip. Remember: That '67 line runs right through Jerusalem. Thus the starting point of negotiations would be that the Western Wall and even Jerusalem's Jewish Quarter are Palestinian, alien territory for which Israel must now bargain.

The very idea that Judaism's holiest shrine is alien or that Jerusalem?s Jewish Quarter is rightfully or historically or demographically Arab is an absurdity. And the idea that, in order to retain them, Israel has to give up parts of itself is a travesty.

Obama didn't just move the goal posts on borders. He also did so on the so-called right of return. Flooding Israel with millions of Arabs would destroy the world?s only Jewish state while creating a 23rd Arab state and a second Palestinian state, not exactly what we mean when we speak of a "two-state solution." That's why it has been the policy of the United States to adamantly oppose this "right."

Yet in his State Department speech, Obama refused to simply restate this position and refused again in a supposedly corrective speech three days later. Instead, he told Israel it must negotiate the right of return with the Palestinians after having given every inch of territory. Bargaining with what, pray tell?

No matter. "The status quo is unsustainable," declared Obama, "and Israel too must act boldly to advance a lasting peace."

Israel too?

Exactly what bold steps for peace have the Palestinians taken? Israel made three radically conciliatory offers to establish a Palestinian state, withdrew from Gaza and has been trying to renew negotiations for more than two years. Meanwhile, the Gaza Palestinians have been firing rockets at Israeli towns and villages. And on the West Bank, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas turns down then-Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's offer, walks out of negotiations with Binyamin Netanyahu and now defies the United States by seeking not peace talks but instant statehood without peace, without recognizing Israel  at the United Nations. And to make unmistakable this spurning of any peace process, Abbas agrees to join the openly genocidal Hamas in a unity government, which even Obama acknowledges makes negotiations impossible.

Obama's response to this relentless Palestinian intransigence? To reward it by abandoning the Bush assurances, legitimizing the ?67 borders and refusing to reaffirm America's rejection of the right of return.

The only remaining question is whether this perverse and ultimately self-defeating policy is born of genuine antipathy toward Israel or of the arrogance of a blundering amateur who refuses to see that he is undermining not just peace but the very possibility of negotiations.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/what-obama-did-to-israel/2011/05/26/AGJfYJCH_story.html?nav=emailpage
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #316 on: May 29, 2011, 07:49:50 PM »
Krauthammer is a pro-Zionist hack. Forget him.

What the President said, that they state with 1967 boundaries and mutually agreed upon land swaps, has ALWAYS been the position of the US. Nothing has changed, that is where they left off last time, before Rubin got shot by some Israeli fanatic. Let them start negotiating. Netanyahu wants to start off with the Palestinians giving up even MORE land, apparently, and he puts on this stupid grotesque dog and pony show and puts on a big phony act.



« Last Edit: May 29, 2011, 08:09:24 PM by Xavier_Onassis »
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Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #317 on: May 29, 2011, 07:56:32 PM »
Krauthammer is a pro-Zionist hack. Forget him.

And you are an anti-Israel hack. I'd rather forget you!
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #318 on: May 29, 2011, 07:56:39 PM »
What the President said, that they state with 1967 boundaries and mutually agreed upon land saps, has ALWAYS been the position of the US.

NO, IT'S NOT.  IT'S BEEN MADE ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT A REVERSION TO THE 67 BORDERS WAS NEVER A STARTING BLOCK WITH THE PRIOR ADMINISTRATIONS, INCLUDING CLINTON.  I'm going to leave the rest of your .... either a) lying or b) ignorance alone for now



"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #319 on: May 29, 2011, 07:57:39 PM »


What Obama did to Israel

By Charles Krauthammer

May 26, 2011


Great post C.  Looks strangely similar to this one though
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #320 on: May 29, 2011, 08:15:04 PM »
Tough sh!t.
The truth is that they HAVE to start with a discussion of all the conquered lands, because the Palerstinians have agreed to give up NOTHING.

Netanyahu needs to be set packing with no aid at all until he learns to behave.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #321 on: May 29, 2011, 08:31:00 PM »
The truth is THE PALESTINIANS HAVE TO START.....with removing their current governing charter of the death of the other state they wish to be a part of the 2 state deal with

So no, no more "lands for a promise of peace".  It starts now...tangible for tangible, or there IS NO PEACE

and FYI, I have no problem if all aide to all the ME stops
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #322 on: May 29, 2011, 09:32:36 PM »
Being as the Palestinians have nothing to give the the Israelis other than a promise, and no promise can ever be tangible, that will not work.

The Israelis have it all, so it is their turn to put something on the table.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #323 on: May 30, 2011, 02:43:09 AM »
Being as the Palestinians have nothing to give the the Israelis other than a promise.


No, there is something exceedingly tangible....THE LITERAL REMOVAL in the current governing charter, death to Israel.  Not to mention the President of the Palestinians can publically declare, for all to see, the right for Israel to exist, right next to a Palestinian state.  Let's see THAT PUBLIC PROMISE


The Israelis have it all, so it is their turn to put something on the table.

Nope....wrong....ball in Palestinans court.  No more land for a mere "promise".  Time for the Palestinians, and the Arab neighbors for that matter, to put up, shut up, or take arms.  Their choice
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Henny

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Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #325 on: May 30, 2011, 11:11:41 AM »
First, Farid Esack's message was great. I hope it brings results. Apartheid in Israel is different, in some ways worse than in S. Africa

Second, as I recall, not only did the PLO, through Yassir Arafat recognize Israel's right to exist, Arafat and Begin got a Nobel Prize for this. Now Netanyahu and a swarm of ignorant goons have moved the entire affair back a couple of decades so that Israel can grab off more land. THis is simply a stall, as Netanyahu has no intentions of negotiating anything.

Unless, of course, he is pressured, which I hope he will be soon. We really really have had enough of this schmuck.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #326 on: May 30, 2011, 11:32:47 AM »
Funny how the supposed land for peace promise arrangement, is now how Israel wants supposedly wants "more land".  I know this is a wasted question, given the poster, but pray tell, what/where's this proof that Israel wants "more land"?  Your say so, isn't going to cut it.  Your declaring that someone else find it for you, isn't going to cut it either

And btw Miss Henny, nice video, even if it is 1 sided.  Definately not a starting point for peace, & in fact, it appears to be a call for more resistance (read injury & death).  Good thing Israel already has the better defensible lands it took the last time the Arab nations & peoples attempted to push Israel into the sea
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #327 on: May 30, 2011, 12:26:22 PM »
What the President said, that they state with 1967 boundaries and mutually agreed upon land saps, has ALWAYS been the position of the US.

NO, IT'S NOT.  IT'S BEEN MADE ABUNDANTLY CLEAR THAT A REVERSION TO THE 67 BORDERS WAS NEVER A STARTING BLOCK WITH THE PRIOR ADMINISTRATIONS, INCLUDING CLINTON.  I'm going to leave the rest of your .... either a) lying or b) ignorance alone for now

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #328 on: May 30, 2011, 12:50:50 PM »
If Obama had said that talks would restart where talks with Clinton and Rabin had left off, i hardly think Netanyahu would have agreed to that.

In fact, if you look at what Rabin's and VClinton's talks ended, that WAS 1967 borders with land swaps.

Note that Netanyahu said what he would not accept, but said NOTHING about what he would accept.

Could Israel be more secure with LESS land than it has now?

I don't think he meant that.

Could Israel be more secure with the SAME AMOUNT of land?
Well, THAT could easily be the 9167 borders with mutually agreed upon land swaps.

Or did he really mean that Israel could only be secure with MORE land than it grabbed in 1967?

Less? The same amount? More? Which did he mean?

Or did he merely mean that he does not want to seriously negotiate at all. Perhaps because Palestinians do not actually exist.

One of these has to be the answer. Which could it be?
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Obama throws Israel under the Bus
« Reply #329 on: May 30, 2011, 01:08:10 PM »
FACT REMAINS, that in no other adminstration prior to Obama's, which IIRC also incl Carter's, NO PRESIDENT was referenced that Israel needed to return to its 67borders as a prerequisate for any negotiations

Facts remain a staunch obstacle in your anti-Israeli rhetoric, including any proof of the claim that Israel wants even "more land"
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle