Author Topic: Let's have that school safer conversation  (Read 6016 times)

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sirs

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Let's have that school safer conversation
« on: December 19, 2012, 12:25:45 AM »
Let's address Plane's' serious question......What would make schools safer

Let's start with the easiest and least costly

- Clear signs posted that indicate This school patrolled by armed guards.  Don't even have to have armed guards, just the sign and verbal statements by staff that they do indeed have them, will provide an initial deterrent

How's that for a start?  Doesn't infringe on any rights, doesn't impact the law abiding citizen in any way, and removes the kill zone aura of a "gun free zone"
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 01:23:27 AM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: Let's have that school safer conversation
« Reply #1 on: December 19, 2012, 01:19:27 AM »
The Sandy Hook school had a door with an electronic lock , such that ordinary entry required someone on the inside to "buzz you in".

Unfortunately it also featured a large glass pane.

The first suggestion is going to be diffrent for each building and grounds , so improvement in phisical security is not simple , but it is uncontroversial so lets get started on that so that something effective can be begun.
So , bars across all glass panes large enough to enter through, hindsight can be painfull.
Fire safety requires that there be a way to open these bars from the inside , so perhaps a latch that is easy to work but can't be reached from the outside.

Non leathal wepons in trusted hands inside the school , some of the teachers and staff at Sandy Hook behaved with great valor , but they were empty handed. A mace spray or a tazer would have been inadequate , definately , but nothing at all is also inadequate and nothing is all they had on hand.

Lastly Firearms and serious firearms training for some of the staff, I don't think it possible to train and arm everyone , so no firearms without the training program, and no certifacation as a school untill a minimum number of trained and armed teachers and staff are reached.

None of these ideas are origional , just my favoriates.


kimba1

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Re: Let's have that school safer conversation
« Reply #2 on: December 19, 2012, 10:05:31 AM »
i would not use armed teachers the logistics is just too hard. what about armed monitors. many schools has adult hall monitors to make sure kids get to ther classes on time. it just means that jobs now covers lower grades.
« Last Edit: December 19, 2012, 10:26:45 AM by kimba1 »

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Let's have that school safer conversation
« Reply #3 on: December 19, 2012, 10:20:44 AM »
Arming teachers is a dumb idea, and would surely result in MORE deaths and arming hall monitors would mean paying more to staff the school. Current security people are not qualified to carry firearms. Neither of these is likely.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

kimba1

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Re: Let's have that school safer conversation
« Reply #4 on: December 19, 2012, 10:38:55 AM »
meant not use armed teachers

armed guards is viable but the training MUST be more exstensive then what is presently done now. possibly differing grade level of armed guard.

as i stated on another post a regular armed would more likely get killed first , the practice time required is simply not enough to get those guards to react quickly enough. very reason we hear off duty officers in stories but very few guards in the news. but not to cast a bad rep on the guards. the good ones simply go on to be cops or  other related fields. security is mostly a stop over for most folks. very few stay long like me . but musem security is a different animal . most guards are long term in museums. we come for the pay we stay for the art.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Let's have that school safer conversation
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2012, 10:43:44 AM »
I think I would first designate certain department heads or teachers that were willing and send them to Concealed Weapons classes as well as extra gun safety classes. Get them certified in shooting and self defense. Have them attend yearly classes. Most teachers get all kinds of certification updates anyway. Depending on the size of the school have 2-4 school employees that are willing to take part. I think we are probably headed towards an off-duty policeman at every school, but it wouldn't hurt to have a few extra lines of defense and offsets Kimba's worries that they might kill the one armed guard first.....I am not nearly as worried as Kimba about that....but have 2-4 armed employees besides the off duty officer solves it.

Of course none of this is entirely preventable. All the gvt nannies want to rush in and pretend they have the answers....PASS SOME F-ing NEW LAWS! All the "solutions" have potential downsides. If we have off-duty police officers....one of them could go off the deep end and kill the kids, if we have armed teachers or a couple of armed teachers....they could go off the deep end and kill the kids....plumbers working at the schools could kill the kids.....hell the postman could sneak a gun in and kill the kids...are we gonna run out and pass a bunch of new laws every time something happens?....Ok lets say pass a bunch of laws and make it harder for mental whackjobs to get guns....um well this kid stole his mother's guns...LETS PASS A LAW AGAINST MOTHERS WITH WHACKJOB KIDS! Ok lets pass a law outlawing new Bushmaster sales....Oooops there are only 200 million guns left out there that could kill kids!

"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

sirs

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Re: Let's have that school safer conversation
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2012, 11:21:55 AM »
Well said, C      8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Let's have that school safer conversation
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2012, 11:23:55 AM »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

kimba1

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Re: Let's have that school safer conversation
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2012, 11:41:11 AM »
off the deep end hmm

not saying empoyees are prone to do this but it`s does make me think that people who lose it does tend to target schools.

nobody is asking why? low security only means he picked the school but thats not the cause,he would likely just find another target.




Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Let's have that school safer conversation
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2012, 11:56:09 AM »
low security only means he picked the school but thats not the cause,he would likely just find another target.

You're excatly right Kimba....as soon as the schools are protected with guns....the whackjobs will move along to easier targets....they will hit daycares, more malls, parks, public swimming pools, sporting events. Targets are endless.....I attend college football games...at the entry gates they barely look in our bags....my buddies sneak bottles of booze in, I sneek in (banned) noise-makers.....most security is "window dressing" but even "window dressing" serves a very important purpose. Guys driving around in golf carts in mall parking lots with a silly flashing red light prevent all kinds of crime.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

kimba1

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Re: Let's have that school safer conversation
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2012, 12:20:54 PM »
Don't forget physical layout. I believe children school are naturally more open than high schools. Meaning the look of a school may draw these nutjob to them. I could be wrong but children school alot more open than the older kid schools.

Also a security risk

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Let's have that school safer conversation
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2012, 01:22:41 PM »
When there is a massacre in a school, it gets a lot more publicity than a drive-by shooting. But seriously, there will never be a day when all schools have armed guards.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Let's have that school safer conversation
« Reply #12 on: December 19, 2012, 02:19:24 PM »
Apparently or professor of students, doesn't think our children need any upgrade in protecting them.  Sad
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Let's have that school safer conversation
« Reply #13 on: December 19, 2012, 02:51:35 PM »
It is rather stupid to believe that they will ever put armed guard in every school in the US. That would be very expensive and is simply NEVER going to happen.

It has nothing to do with whether I favor doing this or not. It is like saying that McDonald's will never serve ratburgers or fired pumpkin: it will never happen.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: Let's have that school safer conversation
« Reply #14 on: December 19, 2012, 03:15:06 PM »
It is rather stupid to believe that they will ever put armed guard in every school in the US. That would be very expensive and is simply NEVER going to happen.

Ah bullshit....many High Schools already have cops.

We can send BILLIONS to Islamists in Egypt.....
but cant afford off-duty cops to protect our children?

Plus PE teachers/coaches/ect....can get certified to carry.
This is not a 1 size fits all solution, there will need to be
many pieces to this puzzle....because 1 piece doesnt
solve everything you and Kimba freak out....but thats
ridiculous! Not every armed guard will always be targeted first
in fact most times they wouldn't. Get a grip and understand
complicated problems almost always need a multi-pronged
approach to help lessen a problem.
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987