Author Topic: Apparently, the Pope must die  (Read 9782 times)

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The_Professor

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Apparently, the Pope must die
« on: September 18, 2006, 07:32:17 PM »
The Pope must die, says Muslim
18.09.06
 

 A notorious Muslim extremist told a demonstration in London yesterday that the Pope should face execution.

Anjem Choudary said those who insulted Islam would be "subject to capital punishment".

His remarks came during a protest outside Westminster Cathedral on a day that worldwide anger among Muslim hardliners towards Pope Benedict XVI appeared to deepen.

The pontiff yesterday apologised for causing offence during a lecture last week. Quoting a medieval emperor, his words were taken to mean that he called the prophet Mohammed "evil and inhuman".

He insisted he was "deeply sorry" but his humbling words did not go far enough to silence all his critics or quell the violence and anger he has triggered.

A nun was shot dead in Somalia by Islamic gunmen and churches came under attack in Palestine.

Choudary's appeal for the death of Pope Benedict was the second time he has been linked with apparent incitement to murder within a year.

The 39-year-old lawyer organised

demonstrations against the publication of cartoons of Mohammed in February in Denmark. Protesters carried placards declaring "Behead Those Who Insult Islam".

Yesterday he said: "The Muslims take their religion very seriously and non-Muslims must appreciate that and that must also understand that there may be serious consequences if you insult Islam and the prophet.

"Whoever insults the message of Mohammed is going to be subject to capital punishment."

He added: "I am here have a peaceful demonstration. But there may be people in Italy or other parts of the world who would carry that out.

"I think that warning needs to be understood by all people who want to insult Islam and want to insult the prophet of Islam."

As well as placards attacking the Pope such as "Pope go to Hell", his followers outside the country's principal Roman Catholic church also waved slogans aimed at offending the sentiments of Christians such as "Jesus is the slave of Allah".

A Scotland Yard spokesman said of his comments: "We have had no complaints about this. There were around 100 people at the demonstration. It passed off peacefully and there were no arrests."

Larger Islamic groups in Britain said they accepted the Pope's apology. Inayat Bunglawala of the Muslim Council of Britain said: "The Vatican has moved quickly to deal with the hurt and we accept that.

"It was something that should never have happened - words of that nature were always likely to cause dismay - and we believe some of the Pope's advisers may have been at fault over his speech."

Yesterday's sermon by the Pope was the first time a pontiff has publicly said sorry.

He said he regretted Muslim reaction to his speech and stressed that the quotation did not reflect his personal opinion. Anger and violence - including attacks on seven churches in the West Bank and Gaza - have characterised one of the biggest international crises involving the Vatican in decades.

The Pope appeared determined to move quickly to try to defuse the anger but the fury of many radicals was unabated last night and there were fears for his safety.

Iraqi jihadists issued a video of a scimitar slicing a cross in two, intercut with images of Benedict and the burning Twin Towers.

The website run in the name of the Mujahedeen Army, used by extremist groups who have claimed responsibility for attacks in Iraq, was addressed to "You dog of Rome" and threatened to "shake your thrones and break your crosses in your home".

In a reference to suicide bombing, it said: "We swear to God to send you people who adore death as much as you adore life."

The threat of violence against Catholics and Christians was emphasised by the murder of an Italian nun in Somalia. Sister Leonella, 66, was shot as she walked from the children's hospital where she worked to her house in Mogadishu, a city recently taken over by an Islamic government.

A Vatican spokesman said he feared her death was "the fruit of violence and irrationality arising from the current situation".

Father Frederico Lombardi said he hoped it was an isolated event. "We are worried about this wave of hatred and hope it doesn't have any grave consequences for the Church around the world," he said.

The murder suggested that extremists are determined to use the Pope's embarrassment as an excuse for violence.

In Turkey, state minister Mehmet Aydin said the Pope seemed to be saying he was sorry for the outrage but not necessarily for his remarks.

"You either have to say this, 'I'm sorry' in a proper way or not say it at all," he told reporters in Istanbul.

There were fierce denunciations of the pontiff from Iran. The English-language Tehran Times called his lecture in Bavaria last week "code words for a new crusade".

The powerful cleric Ahmad Khatami told theological students in the holy city of Qom: The "Pope should fall on his knees in front of a senior Muslim cleric and try to understand Islam."

But the Turkish government signalled it was content and that the Pope's visit to the country in November can go ahead.

In his sermon yesterday at the Papal summer residence of Castel Gandolfo outside Rome, Benedict spoke amid strengthened security.

He said: "I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims.

"These in fact were a quotation from a medieval text, which do not in any way express my personal thought. I hope this serves to appease hearts and to clarify the true meaning of my address."

No other Pope is thought to have made such an apology.


sirs

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Re: Apparently, the Pope must die
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2006, 07:42:11 PM »
"The Muslims take their religion very seriously and non-Muslims must appreciate that and that must also understand that there may be serious consequences if you insult Islam and the prophet.  "Whoever insults the message of Mohammed is going to be subject to capital punishment."

Does this not encapulsate the mindset that is continuing to grow like a cancer, not just in the Middle East, but globally, to a tee?.  Last time I checked, as a free person, I'm not obligated to not criticize Islam or its teachings.  I respect it as a religion, but I'm not required to.  Christianity has been universally and historically criticized and frequently condemned as a religion.  I don't see mass marches in the streets that everyone is to respect Jesus and the Christian religion.  Nor do I see threats that failing to do so will lead to "serious consequences"      >:(
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

kimba1

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Re: Apparently, the Pope must die
« Reply #2 on: September 18, 2006, 08:32:02 PM »
which may be it it`s eventual flaw.
it`s teachings requite all to think alike
the very reason all are required to read it in it`s original language.
eventually factions will be created  and cause internal conflicts.
ex.sunni`s and shiites
as long as we don`t give them a common enemy(pope) to unify ,they will attack each other.


Michael Tee

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Re: Apparently, the Pope must die
« Reply #3 on: September 18, 2006, 10:41:58 PM »
What's really funny in all this is the attitude of "Gee, when someone insults Christianity, none of US go ape-shit."  Like there was no Spanish Inquisition.  Like nobody ever got burned at the stake.  Islam's a much younger religion than Christianity.  When they've been around for 2,000 years, they won't give a shit either.  Your great-great-great-etc. grandchildren can insult the living hell out of them and they'll just take another toke and go "Hey?  Whudd that infidel just say?  Thass HILARIOUS, man."

Plane

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Re: Apparently, the Pope must die
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2006, 12:15:25 AM »
What's really funny in all this is the attitude of "Gee, when someone insults Christianity, none of US go ape-shit."  Like there was no Spanish Inquisition.  Like nobody ever got burned at the stake.  Islam's a much younger religion than Christianity.  When they've been around for 2,000 years, they won't give a shit either.  Your great-great-great-etc. grandchildren can insult the living hell out of them and they'll just take another toke and go "Hey?  Whudd that infidel just say?  Thass HILARIOUS, man."



Yes they are impetuous and impatient , exactly what they claim we have as fatal weaknesses. Christianity has developed a bit in the last 600 years and you have a good point there in that they are acting like zelot Christians did about 600 years ago.

Have they got a Martin Luther or a Gallelleo?

I have a copy of "Why I am not a Muslim" but I can't tell you the author he wisely published under a pen name.

Butrand Russell didn't need to.

So .....

In your estimation how long has Christianity been so mature , and how long will Athiesim require to reach a simular maturity?

sirs

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Re: Apparently, the Pope must die
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2006, 01:05:21 AM »
What's really funny in all this is the attitude of "Gee, when someone insults Christianity, none of US go ape-shit."  Like there was no Spanish Inquisition.  Like nobody ever got burned at the stake.

Care to show us any modern versions of the inquisation?  Burning at the stake?  I thought not.  I can show you some modern versions of beheadings, the murdering of nuns, and riots in the streets.  What's also ironic is all this violent "condemnation" of the Pope, for a quote of a fella eons ago, referencing the potential violence of a particular religion.  Quite prophetic
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

sirs

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Re: Apparently, the Pope must die
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2006, 02:36:50 AM »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Apparently, the Pope must die
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2006, 01:06:30 AM »
<<Care to show us any modern versions of the inquisation?  Burning at the stake?  I thought not.>>

Well, the point of my post was that both religions are evolving but Christianity had a 600-year head start.  I thought I made it clear that Christianity seems to have gotten PAST where the Muslims are now.  They have passed THROUGH that stage of barbarism where the Muslims are currently at.  So I would not expect there to be any modern versions of the inquisition or burning at the stake in the (older) Christian religious world, although it would not be surprising to find them in the younger, still-catching-up, still-developing Muslim religious world.  From your questions, it is quite obvious that you did not get that point. 

As a matter of fact, the Christians do not have to go back 600 years to find their age of barbarism.  Three hundred years should be quite enough.  If you have the time, look up what the penalty for treason was under the laws of England three hundred years ago.  I bet even Bush and Cheney might find it a little extreme.

<<I can show you some modern versions of beheadings, the murdering of nuns, and riots in the streets. >>

Holy shit!  Never before in human history . . .

Two words for you, sirs:  "Grow up." 

sirs

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Re: Apparently, the Pope must die
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2006, 02:00:04 AM »
In other words, NO examples of any modern Christian versions of the inquisation or burning at the stake.  But since, in your opinion, Christianity had a head start in such, current barbarism & terrorism at the hands of Islamicfascists and Radical muslim militants is acceptable, because hey......they have to be allowed to catch up, right?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: Apparently, the Pope must die
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2006, 09:13:11 AM »
I can show you some modern versions of beheadings, the murdering of nuns, and riots in the streets.


I can show you modern murdering of nuns and priests by governments that the United States supported with domestic and military aid, including military training. In many cases the United States knew of the murders and continued to provide aid. Let's not get too high upon that horse my friend.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
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BT

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Re: Apparently, the Pope must die
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2006, 09:55:43 AM »
Quote
I can show you modern murdering of nuns and priests by governments that the United States supported with domestic and military aid, including military training. In many cases the United States knew of the murders and continued to provide aid. Let's not get too high upon that horse my friend.

Not quite a legitimate comparison. The actions you described were not done directly by the US government.

The recent killing of the nun was done directly by militant islamists. For your analogy to work, Allah would be to blame for the actions by these same believers.

_JS

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Re: Apparently, the Pope must die
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2006, 11:40:37 AM »
Not done directly by the United States government, but done with our knowledge and without our condemnation and what is more - done without our removal of aid and occasionally our continued praise of said regimes. In other words, basically condoning such behavior.

It isn't an exact parallel, true, but let's not play the game where the United States is some innocent nation of good in all of this that has always stood by for Christians and Catholics across the world who faced such terror. We've played the other side as well and looking the other way while sending taxpayer's money and military training (as well as CIA "counter-insurgency" training) to nations that murdered nuns, priests, and laymen hardly gives us this wonderful high ground from which to cast mighty aspersions.

The true Arab fascists that Sirs so dearly loves to talk about, but knows nothing of, where mostly Arab Christians. They founded the Baath party and were considered heroes to Saddam Hussein.

The reaction of these militant Muslims is reprehensible. Of that there is little doubt. Yet, to broadbrush that to all of Islam is ridiculous and to take glee in that violence and subsequent broadbrushing is reprehensible.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

BT

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Re: Apparently, the Pope must die
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2006, 12:27:51 PM »
I don't believe i gave a pass to the US govt for the results of the raining obtained at the school of the america's.

I simply stated that ploacing blame up the food chain could be percieved as giving a pass to those who actually did the deed.



sirs

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Re: Apparently, the Pope must die
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2006, 12:46:36 PM »
The true Arab fascists that Sirs so dearly loves to talk about, but knows nothing of, where mostly Arab Christians.

Spoken with sincere ignorance?  Ducks aren't ducks in your realm of debate?  Care to point out what "christians" I'm referring to as Islamicfascists, and how they're deemed Chrisitan in your version of events?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: Apparently, the Pope must die
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2006, 01:35:47 PM »
BT: I understand. Of course the militant Islamists are responsible for the crime they committed. In that there should be no doubt. Yet, the conclusion that many here draw is that all of Islam is responsible, or that "political correctness" (whatever that nebulous term means) is responsible, or that this somehow vindicates everything some long dead Byzantine Emperor said of Islam. I think that in that respect we are making the same point.

Sirs: If anyone is not calling a duck a duck, it is you. You are calling every bird a duck and hoping that someone will declare open season.

You never said Arab Christians were fascists, that's the problem. The most succesful Arab Fascists were a group of Syrian Christians who founded the Baath Party. But that fact undermines the oversimplification on your part that every terrorist group in the Middle East, Indonesia, Phillipines, and anywhere else that is remotely tied to Muslims has the exact same goals, desires, and methods. Oh, and they share the same political philosophy that Mussolini, Hitler, and Franco shared - Fascism.

You don't even come close to "calling a duck a duck." You don't want to learn the complexities that go along with Islam, life in the Middle East, the different races and sub-goups within Islam, the different histories of those groups, how they fare today and what they see as modern injustices. Nope, that's too complex. Like a child, you want one simple answer, which is to group them all in one category of "Islamofascism" because W and your blogger, radio pals say so.

Thinking critically takes effort. Interesting that you select "duck" by the way, there are nine sub-families of ducks as they are difficult to classify in one single family of Anatidae.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.