Author Topic: Faith and Science  (Read 6184 times)

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Plane

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Re: Faith and Science
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2007, 06:39:56 PM »
Building off of the creationist debate in Plane's thread, I am curious about some things as I am also a Christian.

1. Why does it matter if evolution is true?

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  Not much , the stakes are very low on both sides  , if it were not perceived as a contradiction of scripture  both sides would forget about it.


2. Why does it matter if people are born with a sexual attraction towards the same gender (that obviously develops in later years)?

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That is a large assumption to make. Why would God discourage something that a person was helpless to affect? You might conside tenancy's twards all and any crime as indwelling human nature , theft , violence , whatever why is homosexuality diffrent? I didn't make the top ten things God forbad it may be that it is secondary in scripture, but  in human estimation it is more important .


3. Does it matter to you that Peter wrote 1 and 2 Peter and John wrote 1, 2, and 3 John or is it acceptable that perhaps 2 Peter and 3 John were written by others?




If the word of God is the word of God then the authors can be anonymous , God has the power to protect his word .

Amianthus

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Re: Faith and Science
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2007, 08:18:41 PM »
most are more likely have jobs and pay their taxes and involved with their community.

I'd like to see the stats to back this one up.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

kimba1

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Re: Faith and Science
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2007, 08:54:02 PM »
don`t need stats
I got the castro district in san francisco as my proof
also i believe their is even a whole town that is mostly gay(fairfield i think)
the local folks don`t mind them at all since they bring the property value up and unlike other minorities no crime.

Amianthus

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Re: Faith and Science
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2007, 09:20:12 PM »
the local folks don`t mind them at all since they bring the property value up and unlike other minorities no crime.

They bring property values up because, in most cases, they are two income families with no kids - so they have a high amount of discretionary money.

Doesn't support your contention that unemployment is lower.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Lanya

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Re: Faith and Science
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2007, 11:19:29 PM »
1. Why does it matter if evolution is true?

It doesn't matter.  My family and my church saw no discord between evolution and Scripture.

2. Why does it matter if people are born with a sexual attraction towards the same gender (that obviously develops in later years)?

It doesn't. 


3. Does it matter to you that Peter wrote 1 and 2 Peter and John wrote 1, 2, and 3 John or is it acceptable that perhaps 2 Peter and 3 John were written by others?

No, it doesn't matter.  What matters is what is said and what actions one takes after reading.    That is kind of why it doesn't matter if evolution happened or not.  We're here now; how we act is much more important than dredging up some old quarrel about what or who we're descended from.   
Hard to believe that people really think God would "salt" the earth with dino bones, just to test the faith of believers? 
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_JS

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Re: Faith and Science
« Reply #20 on: April 25, 2007, 09:41:06 AM »
It doesn't seem that many of these issues matter, even to the more fundamentalist-minded who took time to reply.

I'm a bit surprised really.
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hnumpah

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Re: Faith and Science
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2007, 09:50:09 AM »
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I'm a bit surprised really.

Why?

Most folks are pretty laid back about their beliefs in these areas. It is only the very vocal minority, on both sides, that want to make a big fuss about them.

Anyone seen Brass lately?

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Plane

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Re: Faith and Science
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2007, 10:00:29 AM »
It doesn't seem that many of these issues matter, even to the more fundamentalist-minded who took time to reply.

I'm a bit surprised really.


You feel free to have hot argument when the stakes are low.

_JS

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Re: Faith and Science
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2007, 12:53:06 PM »
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Most folks are pretty laid back about their beliefs in these areas. It is only the very vocal minority, on both sides, that want to make a big fuss about them.

Is it that they are laid back or don't want to discuss their beliefs?

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You feel free to have hot argument when the stakes are low.

On the contrary Plane, I rather enjoy theological discussions and they need not necessarily be nasty.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

kimba1

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Re: Faith and Science
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2007, 02:28:17 PM »
is it ok to talk about the tower a babylon here or should we go to body?
I`m ok either way

hnumpah

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Re: Faith and Science
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2007, 02:32:58 PM »
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Is it that they are laid back or don't want to discuss their beliefs?

May be a combination of the two. Or that they really have no idea what they believe.

If you want to see a crowd at just about any church, your best bet is to go at Christmas or Easter. The rest of the time, you'll see a lot of empty seats and a few hardcore members who are there every Sunday (or Saturday). Most of those, I'd bet, rarely read and really study the Bible on their own; the simply go and let the minister spoon feed them his/the church's version of the text and their interpretation of it. I've talked to people who really have no idea what their church believes about some issues, because although they are members and believe they are devout (whatever), they have never taken the time and effort to see what their religion really believes. They probably know the basics, the stuff they hear every Sunday (or however often they manage to go), but that's about it. That's the stuff Baptists, Methodists, Lutherans, Pentecostals, et cetera, all agree on; ask them what the differences are, and odds are they can't name any, or at most one or two. Then you have the different sects within the sects - why did this group break away from that one? What did they differ on? Was it a major theological difference, or a minor point?

Some Baptists believe all alcohol consumption is a sin, and will only use grape juice for communion.

Some believe wine is okay for communion, but that all other alcohol consumption is a sin.

Some believe moderate consumption is okay.

I mentioned I asked questions of ministers; I asked one hardcore Baptist once if alcohol was a sin, why would Jesus turn the water to wine at the wedding party? The answer I got was that wine, in Biblical times, was no more than mere grape juice. My next question was how Aaron's sons got drunk on 'mere grape juice' and defiled the temple, causing God to strike them dead? Silence.

Ministers are good at making up crap to support their point of view. That's why I'm not overly impressed by folks who only know what they have been spoonfed in church. I  have a lot more respect for someone who has actually taken the time and effort to study the Bible and find out things on their own.

I had a Jehovah's Witnesses couple show up at my door one day, and I was in a sporting mood, so I let them in. After two hours of my asking them about the finer points of their religion, and explaining them to them when they couldn't answer, they left with a couple of pages of notes on things to ask their elders. I've never had Jehovah's Witnesses knock on my door again - I imagine the elders gave all their missionaries a warning not to come to my house anymore because I would corrupt them.

See, I spent several years going to different churches, trying to find one where I fit in. I listened to the sermons, checked out the finer points of their doctrine, and really learned quite a bit about the differences between the denominations. When I finally found one where I felt I fit in, I eventually became a deacon, and actually was making plans to go to the theological school at Vanderbilt University, with plans to become a minister.

That, though, was many years ago. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since then.

I'm pretty low-key about my beliefs, or lack of them. I don't feel it is incumbent upon me to impose them on others, and I appreciate the same in return. I'm not going to rant about how wrong you are to believe in a god you can't prove exists, because I figure if it makes you feel better about yourself and life in general, then have at it. If it eases the burden of this life on you to believe there is some higher power, some divine reason why things happen the way they do, then more power to you. See, I don't have the same problem theists do; I'm not worried that I have to convert you to believe the same way I do, because if I don't, you're going to burn in hell for eternity. To me, it doesn't matter what you believe, because we're all destined for the same fate when we die anyway: worm food.
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hnumpah

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Re: Faith and Science
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2007, 02:35:24 PM »
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is it ok to talk about the tower a babylon here or should we go to body?
I`m ok either way

Go for it. If anyone is offended by religion, they shouldn't be in a thread titled Faith and Science.
"I love WikiLeaks." - Donald Trump, October 2016

Plane

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Re: Faith and Science
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2007, 03:03:03 PM »
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is it ok to talk about the tower a babylon here or should we go to body?
I`m ok either way

Go for it. If anyone is offended by religion, they shouldn't be in a thread titled Faith and Science.






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The con ventional view is that the tower is the historical hanging garden of Babilon or that it is alligorical entirely.

Could we possibly have been mistakeing a prophecy for history all these years?

kimba1

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Re: Faith and Science
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2007, 03:33:05 PM »
actually you bet me to it
the space elevator was what I was heading to
I`m still amazrd we`re actually thinking of making it
I truely thought it would be a few more decades before we hit this stage now.
we now have commercial space flight.
I wonder will I see lunar colonies.

_JS

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Re: Faith and Science
« Reply #29 on: April 25, 2007, 04:27:17 PM »
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If you want to see a crowd at just about any church, your best bet is to go at Christmas or Easter. The rest of the time, you'll see a lot of empty seats and a few hardcore members who are there every Sunday (or Saturday). Most of those, I'd bet, rarely read and really study the Bible on their own; the simply go and let the minister spoon feed them his/the church's version of the text and their interpretation of it. I've talked to people who really have no idea what their church believes about some issues, because although they are members and believe they are devout (whatever), they have never taken the time and effort to see what their religion really believes.

But isn't that the problem with sola scriptura, sola fide, and other concepts that allowed a multiplicity of Christianity into thousands of faiths with a wide disparity of beliefs?

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I mentioned I asked questions of ministers; I asked one hardcore Baptist once if alcohol was a sin, why would Jesus turn the water to wine at the wedding party? The answer I got was that wine, in Biblical times, was no more than mere grape juice. My next question was how Aaron's sons got drunk on 'mere grape juice' and defiled the temple, causing God to strike them dead? Silence.

I never understood that one either.

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Ministers are good at making up crap to support their point of view. That's why I'm not overly impressed by folks who only know what they have been spoonfed in church. I  have a lot more respect for someone who has actually taken the time and effort to study the Bible and find out things on their own.

Agreed, but that does not make me desire to be an atheist. Indeed, that does not make them less Christian. Ignorance is certainly sad and correctable, but not necessarily unpardonable.

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See, I spent several years going to different churches, trying to find one where I fit in. I listened to the sermons, checked out the finer points of their doctrine, and really learned quite a bit about the differences between the denominations. When I finally found one where I felt I fit in, I eventually became a deacon, and actually was making plans to go to the theological school at Vanderbilt University, with plans to become a minister.

A spiritual journey is a positive experience I think, when handled properly by the individual.

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I don't feel it is incumbent upon me to impose them on others, and I appreciate the same in return.

I don't wish to impose my views on others either.


I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.