Author Topic: President George Bush Kicking A$$  (Read 54206 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Cynthia

  • Guest
Re: President George Bush Kicking A$$
« Reply #195 on: June 10, 2008, 12:11:15 AM »
What power muscle?


LOL well, not THAT PM.

yikes....sorry, but I am in the middle of a few compassionate points that I wish to make with regard to my feelings about the Bush war. Your mushroom cloud interference doesn't flex for me. Sorry.

I can't reply to you in this way, BT. This has not been your thread war.

Cynthia

  • Guest
Re: President George Bush Kicking A$$
« Reply #196 on: June 10, 2008, 12:28:56 AM »
We decided it was what we wanted and we just had to figure out how to make it palatable to our citizens, the hell with the rest of the world.  I can't get over this.  This was totally unnecessary and the blood of 4000+ soldiers is on Bush and his cronies' hands.


Sweetie, you speak for millions of folks in this country......Vietnam war revisited? only if you count the anit war sentiment that has so logically taken over the nation .....voiced the spirit of what is wrong vs what is right.

I have to tell you this, Lanygirl...If I had lived during the era of WW2, I would have rallied so hard and fast for that war! This Bush battle is not right. Perhaps the idea of freedom and democracy is good as idealism, but the way in which it was calculated has never added up nor will it equal equality for Iraqi in the end. Terrorism was side barred.


I have a feeling the troops are coming home to roost. Oooo what an illogical world in which we live. Logic dictated that we tackle the enemy after 9-11.

He's still at large.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2008, 12:32:24 AM by Cynthia »

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16138
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: President George Bush Kicking A$$
« Reply #197 on: June 10, 2008, 12:31:24 AM »
Quote
I can't reply to you in this way, BT. This has not been your thread war.

That's fine. Anyone else up to the task?

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: President George Bush Kicking A$$
« Reply #198 on: June 10, 2008, 12:32:30 AM »
Read up on what really happed under Pres. Bush when applying his almighty expertise on the world in order to save us all from terrorism, Sirs...

I have, and despite the DNC spin, remains largely based in reality
A) No one promised/pledged "saving us all from terrorism"  Such an impossible pledge doesn't do you any justice proporting it as if there were one
B) Saddam had 12+years...YEARS to come into compliance with UN resolitions, that last one being 1441.  Did I mention YEARS?
C) 911
D) Intel concluded it was a "slam dunk" as to the WMD dispostion of Saddam.  Intel also concluded Saddam had ties, both directly and indirectly with Islamic Terrorists
E) With what Bush was privvy to, intel wise, and echoed by nearly every other nation's leader and their own intel services, not to mention the prior administration, Bush acted precisly as he should have as CnC, following the events of 911

Did the intel get it wrong on the WMD?, obviously they did.  Hindsight is 20-20 Cynthia, but since there is NO EVIDENCE of Bush manipulating or cherry picking the intel to see only what he wanted to see, Bush acted accordingly, in his Constitutional mandate to protect this country.  Investigation after investigation after investigation has made that determination regarding Bush and the intel, an no manner of pulling up liberal op-eds or disgruntled fomer employees is going to change that FACT


Supporting the war on terror is one thing. Supporting BUsh just because you are a conservative is stupid.

*whew*....good thing that's not why I'm supportive of him.  I'm supportive of him because HE DID THE RIGHT THING, WITH WHAT HE AND A VAST MAJORITY OF OTHERS BELIEVED THEY KNEW
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Cynthia

  • Guest
Re: President George Bush Kicking A$$
« Reply #199 on: June 10, 2008, 12:33:20 AM »
 ;D

Cynthia

  • Guest
Re: President George Bush Kicking A$$
« Reply #200 on: June 10, 2008, 12:34:17 AM »
Read up on what really happed under Pres. Bush when applying his almighty expertise on the world in order to save us all from terrorism, Sirs...

I have, and despite the DNC spin, remains largely based in reality
A) No one promised/pledged "saving us all from terrorism"  Such an impossible pledge doesn't do you any justice proporting it as if there were one
B) Saddam had 12+years...YEARS to come into compliance with UN resolitions, that last one being 1441.  Did I mention YEARS?
C) 911
D) Intel concluded it was a "slam dunk" as to the WMD dispostion of Saddam.  Intel also concluded Saddam had ties, both directly and indirectly with Islamic Terrorists
E) With what Bush was privvy to, intel wise, and echoed by nearly every other nation's leader and their own intel services, not to mention the prior administration, Bush acted precisly as he should have as CnC, following the events of 911

Did the intel get it wrong on the WMD?, obviously they did.  Hindsight is 20-20 Cynthia, but since there is NO EVIDENCE of Bush manipulating or cherry picking the intel to see only what he wanted to see, Bush acted accordingly, in his Constitutional mandate to protect this country.  Investigation after investigation after investigation has made that determination regarding Bush and the intel, an no manner of pulling up liberal op-eds or disgruntled fomer employees is going to change that FACT


Supporting the war on terror is one thing. Supporting BUsh just because you are a conservative is stupid.

*whew*....good thing that's not why I'm supportive of him.  I'm supportive of him because HE DID THE RIGHT THING, WITH WHAT HE AND A VAST MAJORITY OF OTHERS BELIEVED THEY KNEW


Read the article again and get back to me, Sirs.

Cynthia

  • Guest
Re: President George Bush Kicking A$$
« Reply #201 on: June 10, 2008, 12:42:19 AM »
*whew*....good thing that's not why I'm supportive of him.  I'm supportive of him because HE DID THE RIGHT THING, WITH WHAT HE AND A VAST MAJORITY OF OTHERS BELIEVED THEY KNEW

You're a gas..... Whew!!??

I am just glad that I am not in your camp right now, Sirs. You are so wrong.


Here's a WHEW for ya. Your own words.

Did the intel get it wrong on the WMD?, obviously they did.






sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: President George Bush Kicking A$$
« Reply #202 on: June 10, 2008, 12:53:39 AM »
Read the article again and get back to me, Sirs.

I did.....still doesn't trump reality or the A-E facts of the matter, already presented to you.  Should I now echo your post?...Not agreeing with the war on terror is one thing.  Ignoring facts just because you hate Bush, is stupid


*whew*....good thing that's not why I'm supportive of him.  I'm supportive of him because HE DID THE RIGHT THING, WITH WHAT HE AND A VAST MAJORITY OF OTHERS BELIEVED THEY KNEW

You're a gas..... Whew!!??  I am just glad that I am not in your camp right now, Sirs. You are so wrong.

Your egregiously flawed and biased opinion, is duely noted


Here's a WHEW for ya. Your own words.

Did the intel get it wrong on the WMD?, obviously they did.

Yea....................and???  Bush didn't get it wrong.  His decisons were based on what he was told by the intel....hell what the wrold was being told, by pretty much every other intelligence gathering apparatus, such as the UN and NIE.  A President, makes such decisions not by picking out of some bowl, it's based on what he's being told by all the other aspects of the intelligence & fact gathering community, be it the CIA, FBI, NIE, etc.  Yes, THEY were wrong. 
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Cynthia

  • Guest
Re: President George Bush Kicking A$$
« Reply #203 on: June 10, 2008, 12:56:10 AM »
Read the article again and get back to me, Sirs.

I did.....still doesn't trump reality or the A-E facts of the matter, already presented to you.  Should I now echo your post?...Not agreeing with the war on terror is one thing.  Ignoring facts just because you hate Bush, is stupid


*whew*....good thing that's not why I'm supportive of him.  I'm supportive of him because HE DID THE RIGHT THING, WITH WHAT HE AND A VAST MAJORITY OF OTHERS BELIEVED THEY KNEW

You're a gas..... Whew!!??  I am just glad that I am not in your camp right now, Sirs. You are so wrong.

Your egregiously flawed and biased opinion, is duely noted


Here's a WHEW for ya. Your own words.

Did the intel get it wrong on the WMD?, obviously they did.

Yea....................and???  Bush didn't get it wrong.  His decisons were based on what he was told by the intel....hell what the wrold was being told, by pretty much every other intelligence gathering apparatus, such as the UN and NIE.  A President, makes such decisions not by picking out of some bowl, it's based on what he's being told by all the other aspects of the intelligence & fact gathering community, be it the CIA, FBI, NIE, etc.  Yes, THEY were wrong. 


Bush got it wrong....bottom line and you even said it in our own thread, Sirs.

Stop spinning.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16138
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: President George Bush Kicking A$$
« Reply #204 on: June 10, 2008, 12:59:05 AM »
'Bush Lied'? If Only It Were That Simple.

By Fred Hiatt
Monday, June 9, 2008; A17

Search the Internet for "Bush Lied" products, and you will find sites that offer more than a thousand designs. The basic "Bush Lied, People Died" bumper sticker is only the beginning.

Sen. John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.), chairman of the Select Committee on Intelligence, set out to provide the official foundation for what has become not only a thriving business but, more important, an article of faith among millions of Americans. And in releasing a committee report Thursday, he claimed to have accomplished his mission, though he did not use the L-word.

"In making the case for war, the administration repeatedly presented intelligence as fact when it was unsubstantiated, contradicted or even nonexistent," he said.

There's no question that the administration, and particularly Vice President Cheney, spoke with too much certainty at times and failed to anticipate or prepare the American people for the enormous undertaking in Iraq.

But dive into Rockefeller's report, in search of where exactly President Bush lied about what his intelligence agencies were telling him about the threat posed by Saddam Hussein, and you may be surprised by what you find.

On Iraq's nuclear weapons program? The president's statements "were generally substantiated by intelligence community estimates."

On biological weapons, production capability and those infamous mobile laboratories? The president's statements "were substantiated by intelligence information."

On chemical weapons, then? "Substantiated by intelligence information."

On weapons of mass destruction overall (a separate section of the intelligence committee report)? "Generally substantiated by intelligence information." Delivery vehicles such as ballistic missiles? "Generally substantiated by available intelligence." Unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to deliver WMDs? "Generally substantiated by intelligence information."

As you read through the report, you begin to think maybe you've mistakenly picked up the minority dissent. But, no, this is the Rockefeller indictment. So, you think, the smoking gun must appear in the section on Bush's claims about Saddam Hussein's alleged ties to terrorism.

But statements regarding Iraq's support for terrorist groups other than al-Qaeda "were substantiated by intelligence information." Statements that Iraq provided safe haven for Abu Musab al-Zarqawi and other terrorists with ties to al-Qaeda "were substantiated by the intelligence assessments," and statements regarding Iraq's contacts with al-Qaeda "were substantiated by intelligence information." The report is left to complain about "implications" and statements that "left the impression" that those contacts led to substantive Iraqi cooperation.

In the report's final section, the committee takes issue with Bush's statements about Saddam Hussein's intentions and what the future might have held. But was that really a question of misrepresenting intelligence, or was it a question of judgment that politicians are expected to make?

After all, it was not Bush, but Rockefeller, who said in October 2002: "There has been some debate over how 'imminent' a threat Iraq poses. I do believe Iraq poses an imminent threat. I also believe after September 11, that question is increasingly outdated. . . . To insist on further evidence could put some of our fellow Americans at risk. Can we afford to take that chance? I do not think we can."

Rockefeller was reminded of that statement by the committee's vice chairman, Sen. Christopher S. Bond (R-Mo.), who with three other Republican senators filed a minority dissent that includes many other such statements from Democratic senators who had access to the intelligence reports that Bush read. The dissenters assert that they were cut out of the report's preparation, allowing for a great deal of skewing and partisanship, but that even so, "the reports essentially validate what we have been saying all along: that policymakers' statements were substantiated by the intelligence."

Why does it matter, at this late date? The Rockefeller report will not cause a spike in "Bush Lied" mug sales, and the Bond dissent will not lead anyone to scrape the "Bush Lied" bumper sticker off his or her car.

But the phony "Bush lied" story line distracts from the biggest prewar failure: the fact that so much of the intelligence upon which Bush and Rockefeller and everyone else relied turned out to be tragically, catastrophically wrong.

And it trivializes a double dilemma that President Bill Clinton faced before Bush and that President Obama or McCain may well face after: when to act on a threat in the inevitable absence of perfect intelligence and how to mobilize popular support for such action, if deemed essential for national security, in a democracy that will always, and rightly, be reluctant.

For the next president, it may be Iran's nuclear program, or al-Qaeda sanctuaries in Pakistan, or, more likely, some potential horror that today no one even imagines. When that time comes, there will be plenty of warnings to heed from the Iraq experience, without the need to fictionalize more.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/08/AR2008060801687_pf.html

sirs

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 27078
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: President George Bush Kicking A$$
« Reply #205 on: June 10, 2008, 01:27:35 AM »
'Bush Lied'? If Only It Were That Simple.
By Fred Hiatt
Monday, June 9, 2008

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/06/08/AR2008060801687_pf.html

If only rabid Bush bashers were to ever inject just a few cc's of objectivity.  Thanks for the article, Bt  Good read
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Cynthia

  • Guest
Re: President George Bush Kicking A$$
« Reply #206 on: June 10, 2008, 01:39:52 AM »
Lanya's article was a better read, fellas.

You will find yourself to be very wrong on this issue....very wrong.

Bush is not the Reagan of our past.

You both know it.

This war was ill advised and not worth the call.

BT

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 16138
    • View Profile
    • DebateGate
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 3
Re: President George Bush Kicking A$$
« Reply #207 on: June 10, 2008, 01:47:17 AM »
Quote
Lanya's article was a better read, fellas.

You will find yourself to be very wrong on this issue....very wrong.

Bush is not the Reagan of our past.

You both know it.

This war was ill advised and not worth the call.

You speak with such certainty.

Who said Bush was Reagan II?

Cynthia

  • Guest
Re: President George Bush Kicking A$$
« Reply #208 on: June 10, 2008, 02:34:12 AM »
You don't speak with any hope, BT...Reagan was our last good Rep. PRez.

Bush has ruined the entire party imo.
His war was a mistake.

It's fairly obvious, dear.

Lanya

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3300
    • View Profile
  • Liked:
  • Likes Given: 0
Re: President George Bush Kicking A$$
« Reply #209 on: June 10, 2008, 05:14:06 AM »
Poor Fred Hiatt.  His salary depends on his not understanding the facts about all this, so I cut him some slack.

Plane:"If not us then who?

Who and what is prepared to be the worlds policeman?'"

Who has money for gas for the squad car? Who has bread? How's our national grain storage, is it full?   Who has tires? Who has material to make tires?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/08/us/08oil.html?_r=1&hp=&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1212927508-Iqow4Mtu5vtV


We may be the land of plenty, but it isn't unending plenty.  There is plenty to do right here at home, plenty to invent, restore, etc.   Maybe next century we can be the World's Policeman again.   
Planned Parenthood is America’s most trusted provider of reproductive health care.