Author Topic: Obama perfect?  (Read 58595 times)

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Cynthia

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #180 on: July 04, 2008, 02:39:01 PM »
I want to add that these problems that I experience and witness first hand, in the school system today, have their  roots in the nclb act. You continue to want proof that the act is not responsible. But, while you are focused on that tree, the system is not working well, and trees are falling short. The children are being left behind. Something is wrong with this picture, and if you want to blame the entire country---each and every teacher who has cried outrage... then do so. MY point has never been about the text itself.....but more about reading between the lines. Somethinmg has to be changed.

You need to get off the pedestal of the anti Union NEA and listen to the teachers, BT.
Do you do that? Honestly. Do you hear the issues. . . or do you stand on your platform as a conservative, like Sirs.

No matter what you or Ami have to post in terms of numbers, children are not getting the best....and the daddy is the nclb. The new rule brought to us by the daddy nclb act is responsible in the end.

We shall see if McCain believes this to be true, as well. I have read that he, too believes that there are glitches.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 02:42:36 PM by Cynthia »

Cynthia

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #181 on: July 04, 2008, 02:43:47 PM »
Quote
This is getting to be a contest between your lack of knowledge of the situation and the your need to argue.

This is a contest between fact and biased opinion.

The real complaint is that at least one test a year tests teachers as well as students.

No. Wrong again. Your opinion. Listen to the video on Obama, again.

sirs

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #182 on: July 04, 2008, 02:45:11 PM »
I think everyone has acknowledged "glitches" Cynthia.  The issue is what are these SPECIFIC glitches?  The only answer seems to be the ever pervasive need for more money, as if THAT hasn't been tried already
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Cynthia

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #183 on: July 04, 2008, 02:45:54 PM »
Well, then there is a severe miscommunication between what you HAVE googled and the truth.

again, you claim to know, based on your one time shot on this Ami, but you are not living in my world.

I claim to know based on having read the act. Have you done so yet?

The video that I posted with Obama's complete and honorable knowledge on the subject speaks volumns.

His "honorable knowledge" apparently does not always jive with reality. Calling it "unfunded" was but one of his untruths.

Even McCain has admitted the act is in need of change.

I never said it was perfect, or couldn't be improved. But Obama's and your claims are far from truth.

No, Ami, you are knowledge of what is happening is second hand. With all due respect. You do not understand the forest for the trees. You can read the act all day long. There are issues that need fixed and if that means the act need revised, then I believe that those changes will happen under Obama.

Cynthia

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #184 on: July 04, 2008, 02:48:02 PM »
I think everyone has acknowledged "glitches" Cynthia.  The issue is what are these SPECIFIC glitches?  The only answer seems to be the ever pervasive need for more money, as if THAT hasn't been tried already

Listen to what Obama says on the video.

I will find the transcript.

Over testing, watering down curriculum in order to meet the goals for the gov, instead of the child.....


Cynthia

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #185 on: July 04, 2008, 02:51:44 PM »
Obama has read the act and he has found the loopholes that you have not found. That's reality, Ami.

Then perhaps he could elucidate. Calling it "unfunded" is plainly not true. Saying that the act punishes schools that need improvement is not true.

So, what are the loopholes that he found?

I don't know, but I'll tell you one thing.....for the first time, I have heard a politician who has at least listened to the reality of the situation, and if has a way to plug up those loopholes, then I can't wait.
I see those loophole daily in my work.  I have tried to explain them to you.

You continue to want to play on words here. Reading the act is one thing.....listening to how it hasn't worked based on so many teachers and their outrage over the harm that this "act" has done to kids....is priceless, and worth looking into. I trust his judgement.

We all can't be that wrong,  and yet you and BT be...smack on.

Lest you both want to run for some sort of higher office. Go for it.

There is apparently more to a story in the world of not only education, but in politics when a system is this broken.... when in the past the system offered a hell of a lot more to children overall.


« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 02:56:53 PM by Cynthia »

sirs

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #186 on: July 04, 2008, 02:57:31 PM »
I think everyone has acknowledged "glitches" Cynthia.  The issue is what are these SPECIFIC glitches?  The only answer seems to be the ever pervasive need for more money, as if THAT hasn't been tried already

Listen to what Obama says on the video.

We have, and as Ami has already factually demonstrated, he's wrong on it being underfunded, and is severely lacking in what "glitches" need to be addressed.  And neither you nor Obama have provided any areas specifically that were supposedly "underfunded".  Just your opinion of citing our need to listen to Obama's opnion

And as a side note, I'm assuming we'd point you to a McCain video to give an accurate representation of the war in Iraq, currently, and that's all you'd need to see for clarity, right??


Over testing, watering down curriculum in order to meet the goals for the gov, instead of the child.....

and where in NCLB does it reference the amount of tests mandated?  Where does it reference that the curriculum be watered down?  See, these are the "glitches" you nor Obama are failing to provide.  You also seem to have a big issue with the desire that many tax payers want to see better accountability for their massive amounts of tax dollars being used by the education system.  Why would that be?
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Cynthia

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #187 on: July 04, 2008, 02:58:40 PM »
There is no real way to encourage original thought using standardized multiple choice exams.

No method of testing encourages cheating like multiple choice exams.

NCLB doesn't design the tests. The states do.

===================================
Every test in every state is a multiple choice. There is no chance that this will change, as they need a test that can be graded by machine.


And testing children is part of life. No one is saying otherwise in my fiield.

But, testing has taken over the essence of what the child's overall life as a "learner".

That's wrong.


BT

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #188 on: July 04, 2008, 03:19:52 PM »
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Every test in every state is a multiple choice. There is no chance that this will change, as they need a test that can be graded by machine.

Which has little to do with NCLB,  which was the claim.


BT

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #189 on: July 04, 2008, 03:25:46 PM »
Quote
You continue to want proof that the act is not responsible.

Actually i want proof the the NCLB IS responsible.

You haven't provided that . In fact you contradict yourself at every turn.

Case in point. We should listen to Obama. Yet he isn't an educator so how can his opinion count. The only credential he has is that of a parent and we have heard from YOU that that is not enough.


Cynthia

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #190 on: July 04, 2008, 03:36:42 PM »
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You continue to want proof that the act is not responsible.

Actually i want proof the the NCLB IS responsible.

You haven't provided that . In fact you contradict yourself at every turn.

Case in point. We should listen to Obama. Yet he isn't an educator so how can his opinion count. The only credential he has is that of a parent and we have heard from YOU that that is not enough.



Obama is a highly qualified politician who happens to listen to teachers, including his own sister.

The fact that the entire nation of teachers is complaining about the overkill in testing is one way to prove that the NCLB act is behind this somehow. It's not for me to prove that in print. I am telling you that the proof is in the pudding, Bt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSTzLILQx3c&feature=related

BT

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #191 on: July 04, 2008, 03:40:15 PM »
Again. He is not a teacher. His opinion counts for squat according to you.

Doesn't matter if his sister teaches. Doesn't matter if he has read the law.

He is not a teacher. End of story. According to your own argument.




Cynthia

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #192 on: July 04, 2008, 03:41:05 PM »
Again. He is not a teacher. His opinion counts for squat according to you.

Doesn't matter if his sister teaches. Doesn't matter if he has read the law.

He is not a teacher. End of story. According to your own argument.







No, Bt....this is not the end of the story.

Teachers across the board experience these issues;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqTJvpfv6J4&feature=related

sirs

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #193 on: July 04, 2008, 03:43:31 PM »
But.....but..... he "listens", Bt.  And he's a "good politician".  Those apparently get one off the hook, and acceptable in supporting their non-teacher opinion
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Cynthia

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Re: Obama perfect?
« Reply #194 on: July 04, 2008, 03:49:29 PM »
But.....but..... he "listens", Bt.  And he's a "good politician".  Those apparently get one off the hook, and acceptable in supporting their non-teacher opinion


Listen to the voices of the professionals. This man explains a lot. His first statement makes sense. Collecting data to drive instruction has been a positive element of the NCLB act. . . but listen to the rest of his words. . . . I have heard Biden, Richardson and others say basically the same thing.

I like his statements of truth.
Gun to the head! Education worked for a very long time.
This man can explain the problems better than I can, I'll admit. But, that does not take away from the reality that there is a problem. I can give you my experience based argument, and google facts too, but I see kids being harmed, as I posted earlier.
 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-ul1lMLxy4&feature=related

« Last Edit: July 04, 2008, 03:59:55 PM by Cynthia »