An Immigration Double Negative?

[sirs]

my question is how long does it take to prove citizenship?  does the officer trust whatever document provided ? if not than how long can the radio/computer check take?  if it takes over an hour than it`s still a problem,it`s kinda doubtful these american officers will factor this in.  if you think about it,legal immigrants would be less desirable to hire if they can`t show up to work on time.

I've thought about it, and I'm not sure what the problem here is Kimba.  How hard is it for a legal citizen to have a Driver's License??  Especially if they're driving to work!!  That's all the officer's looking for.  People aren't going to be stopped for walking to work, unless they're making some pretty egregious & dangerous lane crossings.  So, not sure why there'd be any problem of a legal immigrant showing any valid DL   

[Kramer]

I didn't assume I stated facts

Obviously not. You stated an incorrect assumption that you THOUGHT was a fact.

Not really, the fact is every illegal alien is a criminal. 100% of them are breaking the law each and every day they are here illegally. In the process of being here illegally they have children then stiff the hospital for payment. Many of these so-called Americans become gang members, which of course is criminal behavior. This needs to factor into crime statistics because had their law breaking parents not come here they would not be here to then become criminals like their parents. These criminals forge documents and steal peoples identities. They rob, rape and murder. They cheat and steal and don't pay taxes. They drive drunk and without legal licenses and hit, hurt and kill people whilst driving like people drive in 3rd world countries -- these are crimes. If all of a sudden these people left we would have to lay off police, Border Patrol, customs agent and many more. If these people were not here federal employment would have to drop significantly. You are clueless as to the devastation these people are causing border states. Sorry buddy but 100% of them are committing crimes and in my book illegals are the majority of criminals and thus the major cause of crime in this nation.

Let me tell ya something ---- most of their crimes are not recorded or reported.

[Universe Prince]

Translation: they cause more crime because Kramer just knows they do, and that's good enough for him so it should be good enough for you.

[Universe Prince]

If all of a sudden these people left we would have to lay off police, Border Patrol, customs agent and many more. If these people were not here federal employment would have to drop significantly.

Of course, we could achieve that, and probably to a greater extent, if we allowed the vast majority of them to legally and relatively easily come and go from the country.

[kimba1]

if it`s a drivers license then it`s not much of an issue, but if it`s a deeper check that takes along time then it`s another issue.

and any good/bad officer can make up a plausible excuse to check someones ID.

[Plane]

If I am doing nothing in particular , does a patrollman have a right to demand that I identifymyself?

[Universe Prince]

Plane, I would say no. But the what the law says may depend on where you are doing nothing in particular.

[sirs]

if it`s a drivers license then it`s not much of an issue, but if it`s a deeper check that takes along time then it`s another issue.  and any good/bad officer can make up a plausible excuse to check someones ID.

Why would someone driving to work, not have their DL?  Why would someone not driving be asked to show their ID?  And sure, there's going to be a bad cop from time to time.  That's not a problem with the law.  That's a problem with that particular person who was hired

[Amianthus]

Not really, the fact is every illegal alien is a criminal. 100% of them are breaking the law each and every day they are here illegally.

You're trying to turn it around. Your original claim was that the "high majority of criminals and crime are illegal alien related". Now you're claiming that all illegal aliens are criminals because they are here illegally. I can agree with the latter - that is a true statement. However, you have failed to show that the "majority of criminals and crime" are due to illegal aliens. The simple fact is that criminals who are here legally outnumber illegal aliens, so your initial claim cannot be true, unless you show that most home grown criminals are only criminals because of the actions of illegal aliens.

The balance of your screed was nothing more than bigoted assumptions, again based on no facts that have been presented.

[kimba1]

The only problem I see about lumping illegal immigrants who only broke the law by just being here with illegals who do violent crimes . is that it may lower chances of capture of the violent ones.
by the narrow focus

this may increase criminal activities.
this pretty much establish arizona as a reliable drug route by simply restricting the demographic of the drug mules.

the funny part is the violents ones are more likely able to not get caught by this new law with fake Id`s or illegally obtained duplicates

bribing low paying DMV clerks to get dups.

[Kramer]

Not really, the fact is every illegal alien is a criminal. 100% of them are breaking the law each and every day they are here illegally.

You're trying to turn it around. Your original claim was that the "high majority of criminals and crime are illegal alien related". Now you're claiming that all illegal aliens are criminals because they are here illegally. I can agree with the latter - that is a true statement. However, you have failed to show that the "majority of criminals and crime" are due to illegal aliens. The simple fact is that criminals who are here legally outnumber illegal aliens, so your initial claim cannot be true, unless you show that most home grown criminals are only criminals because of the actions of illegal aliens.

The balance of your screed was nothing more than bigoted assumptions, again based on no facts that have been presented.

Since the entire discussion is centered around the new law in AZ the focus of my comments were related to crime in AZ and other border states that have been overrun by illegals. Of course it doesn't apply to a state like Kansas, although I'm sure there are many US states & cities that one would not consider to have illegal immigration problems do. But I have no doubts that the majority of crimes committed in CA & Arizona are illegal alien related. You must like to argue for the sake or arguing but hey if you like to split hairs go for it.

[sirs]

The only problem I see about lumping illegal immigrants who only broke the law by just being here with illegals who do violent crimes . is that it may lower chances of capture of the violent ones.
by the narrow focus

Good thing no one is doing that.  Illegal immigrants are lumped into those who are here illegally.  Not sure how that takes away from catching violent criminals, here illegally or not.  In fact you can argue that any oficer, who after pulling someone over for some infraction, then determing they're here illegally, and turns them over to ICE for deportation, could potentially be removing a violent criminal, before they were caught doing another violent act

this may increase criminal activities.

I have no idea where you're coming up with these assumptions, Kimba.  Clearly it could easily have the opposite effect as you describe.  Removing illegal immigrants, who may also be violent criminals, not after they've committed said violent crime, but before hand.

this pretty much establish arizona as a reliable drug route by simply restricting the demographic of the drug mules.

Again, not sure what you're trying to claim.  Cartels now going to be using swedes?  90year old females??  If they get pulled over for an infraction, and they can't demonstrate valid ID either, I'm guessing they'll be taken in as well

bribing low paying DMV clerks to get dups.

Which is different than what would be going on prior, how??

[kimba1]

i meant the focus will go to the easier to catch non-violents ones and not the more knowledgable in crime illegals.

and definately not 90 year old swedes, but easier to hire college girls who are U.S. citizens.

for some reason people still have blinders that these girl are used as drug mules. despite it been established fact.

20/20 even did a special on it

I think quite afew episodes of locked up abroad that college girls

[sirs]

NO, again, the focus will be on catching criminals......period.  You, and many others seem to think this new authority means law enforcement will just drop everything else they're doing, and go hunt for illegal immigrants.

NO

It simply means that when an officer pulls over someone, they have the authority to act on a suspician that the fella may be here illegally.  Not that they didn't have the authority before, simply that they now have the support of the state when they do

[Amianthus]

But I have no doubts that the majority of crimes committed in CA & Arizona are illegal alien related.

You may "have no doubts" but that doesn't mean that you have any actual facts to bolster your case.

"Despite our melting-pot roots, Americans have often been quick to blame the influx of immigrants for rising crime rates. But new research released Monday shows that immigrants in California are, in fact, far less likely than U.S.-born Californians are to commit crime. While people born abroad make up about 35% of California's adult population, they account for only about 17% of the adult prison population, the report by the Public Policy Institute of California (PPIC) showed. Indeed, among men ages 18 to 40 - the demographic most likely to be imprisoned - those born in the U.S. were 10 times more likely than foreign-born men to be incarcerated."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1717575,00.html#ixzz0mPpVt9QW