Author Topic: alright damn it- lets talk about it  (Read 8660 times)

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kimba1

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alright damn it- lets talk about it
« on: February 15, 2008, 09:49:24 PM »
what is good for our economy

more jobs?
what kind of jobs?
would increasing our peoples education help?
what changes in our labour would help?
does big business help or hurt our country?


 everybody is welcome to add more questions
lets see what turns up

Lanya

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2008, 11:03:01 PM »
I read that the GI Bill increased wealth by many many times over what it cost.
Also it increased the size of  colleges and universities.  I think we need a GI Bill for everyone. 
...Remedial tutoring services should be in great demand, for one thing.
Planned Parenthood is America’s most trusted provider of reproductive health care.

BT

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2008, 12:23:20 AM »
You have a GI Bill for everyone. It is called public education. And though it only goes through grade 12 many states will continue to fund higher education at state colleges if you maintain a 3.0 average. If your state doesn't do that , perhaps you should lobby for them to do so. GA does, funded by a lottery.


Michael Tee

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2008, 09:19:27 AM »
I think eliminating waste is good for your economy.  Less private cars on the road, more bikes and public transportation.  Telecommuting, working from home to avoid needless back and forth road trips to and from work.

It always amazed me that healthy people drive back and forth to work and then spend an hour working out at the gym.  Why not bike to and from work and save the hour at the gym?

Use of alternative energy such as solar and wind power to lessen demands for imports and ease the load on the grid.

INVEST IN PEOPLE, not war.  What good is a free public education system if millions of kids are too damaged by poor or inadequate parenting to be able to take advantage of it?  Massive, free, early childhood development organizations should be ensuring that every child gets healthy, productive, motivating personal interaction, stimulation and role modeling so that he or she will be good student material on reaching school age.  More and better teachers' colleges, more money for research and development in pedagogy. 

Stop the cycle of babies making babies.   You need universal sex education and the distribution of free condoms and birth control devices in all junior high schools and high schools.  Unwanted babies, through neglect and poor parenting, often turn into uneducated, wasteful drains on the economy.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 09:22:57 AM by Michael Tee »

BT

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2008, 11:07:56 AM »
Quote
INVEST IN PEOPLE, not war.  What good is a free public education system if millions of kids are too damaged by poor or inadequate parenting to be able to take advantage of it?  Massive, free, early childhood development organizations should be ensuring that every child gets healthy, productive, motivating personal interaction, stimulation and role modeling so that he or she will be good student material on reaching school age.  More and better teachers' colleges, more money for research and development in pedagogy.

Stop the cycle of babies making babies.   You need universal sex education and the distribution of free condoms and birth control devices in all junior high schools and high schools.  Unwanted babies, through neglect and poor parenting, often turn into uneducated, wasteful drains on the economy.

Define adequate parenting.


Michael Tee

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2008, 11:25:49 AM »
<<Define adequate parenting.>>

 I wouldn't dare.  Experts have written thousands of books on this.

How about Inadequate Parenting?  Nowhere near enough hugs and body care.  Not nearly enough speaking or singing to the baby.  Very little attention to basic physical needs.  Exposure to toxic environments.  Not setting physical or intellectual challenges.  Failure to socialize.  Inappropriate and excessive criticism or praise, little if any encouragement or appropriate encouragement . . .

What's the point?  Most of us know the vague parameters of adequate and inadequate parenting, or at least we can recognize inadequate when we see it.

BT

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #6 on: February 16, 2008, 11:37:17 AM »
The point is simple.

Adequate parenting at the minimum requires the parents to accept responsibility and therefore accountability for nurturing their offspring. And yet your solution to babies having babies is to absolve said parents of any of those responsibilities.

For example, adequate parenting would entail teaching your children about procreation, sexual gratification and the responsibilities and consequences that go with that activity.

You have the state usurping that role.




Christians4LessGvt

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #7 on: February 16, 2008, 12:12:40 PM »
"Why not bike to and from work and save the hour at the gym?"

Come on Michael, typical liberal idea, that sounds good but makes no sense once you really look at it
Like biking to work is going to work in an aging population in diverse climates of hot/cold/ice/rain/snow
Try that in Phoenix, Houston, New Orleans, Kansas City, ect and everybody would stink like hell at work
or you could have everybody shower once they arrive at work
wasting more time, water and energy
it would take millions double/thriple the time to get to work (bikes dont go 55mph under normal circumstances)
tens of millions of old / middle age people wont be able to do it
millions would have to move because they live 30 plus miles from work (60 mile RT)
i bet the United Auto Workers would support this!
what about daylight savings time....
millions of people leaving work in the dark in the winter on bikes? yeah sure
in 30 degree weather, ice/snow for a 20 mile bike ride home?
bikes dont protect you from the weather like cars
what about soccer Moms that drop off young children at school/day care
like biking would be practical for that?
what about stopping on the way home at the grocery store?
bags of groceries on a bike? in the rain?


yeah sure


yeah sure


yeah sure a 60 mile RT
« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 12:37:43 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #8 on: February 16, 2008, 12:14:12 PM »
For example, adequate parenting would entail teaching your children about procreation, sexual gratification and the responsibilities and consequences that go with that activity.

You have the state usurping that role.

================================================
I don't think the state 'usurps' this role. To my knowledge, no government in the US has ever told parents they cannot teach their children about the proverbial birds and bees.

In some states, they have sex ed classes, but these are simply to insure that every child, even those with parents who are remiss in their duties, have a basic knowledge of this information. To avoid offending anyone, the state sex ed classes tend to be incomplete, but I don;t thnk it is at all fair to say that the state "usurps" this role in any way. "supplements" would be the more correct term.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Michael Tee

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #9 on: February 16, 2008, 12:37:57 PM »
<<Adequate parenting at the minimum requires the parents to accept responsibility and therefore accountability for nurturing their offspring. And yet your solution to babies having babies is to absolve said parents of any of those responsibilities.>>

That's a pretty negative assessment of an idea that has absolutely no downside for anyone.  The Early Child Development teams work WITH new parents or parents-to-be and show them ways or techniques they were previously unaware of.  They provide newborns and toddlers with otherwise unavailable environmental stimuli to learning.  They don't ABSOLVE anyone of parental responsibility any more than cooking classes absolve the family cook of the chore of cooking the family dinner.

<<For example, adequate parenting would entail teaching your children about procreation, sexual gratification and the responsibilities and consequences that go with that activity.

<<You have the state usurping that role.>>

No more than elementary school math classes usurp the parents' role of math teacher.  Parents weren't performing that role adequately or uniformly.   Nor were they in teaching sex ed.  Time for the educational system to step in.  Otherwise, we'll have more of what we have now.  I think kimba's question was how to improve on what we have now, not how to perpetuate it.

Michael Tee

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #10 on: February 16, 2008, 12:43:27 PM »
<<Come on Michael, typical liberal idea, that sounds good but makes no sense once you really look at it
Like biking to work is going to work in an aging population in diverse climates of hot/cold/ice/rain/snow
Try that in Phoenix, Houston, New Orleans, Kansas City, ect and everybody would stink like hell at work
or you could have everybody shower once they arrive at work>>

Well, subject to a little common sense.  I biked to work every day before my heart attack, showered and shaved at the office when I got there.  No water wasted.  And I stopped for the winter, took the bus and subway.  Didn't even ride in the summer rain like some hard-core riders will.

Obviously it's not possible for every worker every working day.  But it would save a helluva lot of time and fuel if everyone did it who could do it.

Christians4LessGvt

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #11 on: February 16, 2008, 12:48:57 PM »
hey michael i have a question
how does canadian healthcare handle smoking?
like if if citizen A does not smoke he pays his taxes for healthcare
but if citizen B decides to smoke 4 packs a day, does the heavy smoker pay the same for healthcare?
i think here in the US some would pay more for their policy and some dont
i was just curious how gvt run healthcare handles reckless behavior impact on healthcare costs?


Licence to smoke' proposed 

Smokers would have to get a licence to light up under the plan


Smokers could be forced to pay for a permit to buy tobacco if a government health advisory body gets its way.

No one would be able to buy cigarettes without the permit, under the idea proposed by Health England.

Its chairman, Professor Julian Le Grand, told BBC Radio 5 Live the scheme would make a big difference to the number of people giving up smoking.

But smokers' rights group Forest described the idea as "outrageous", given how much tax smokers already pay.

Professor Le Grand, a former adviser to ex-PM Tony Blair, said cash raised by the proposed scheme would go to the NHS.

He said it was the inconvenience of getting a permit - as much as the cost - that would deter people from persisting with the smoking habit.

"You've got to get a form, a complex form - the government's good at complex forms; you have got to get a photograph.

"It's a little bit of a problem to actually do it, so you have got to make a conscious decision every year to opt in to being a smoker."

'Extra bureaucracy'

He added: "70% of smokers actually want to stop smoking.

"So if you just make it that little bit more difficult for them to actually re-start or even to start in the first place, yes I think it will make a big difference."

But Forest said it would be "an extra form of taxation, while tobacco taxation is already at record levels".

Forest spokesman Simon Clark said that when the cost of administration, extra bureaucracy and enforcement are taken into account, "the mind boggles".

He added that the people most affected by the proposals would be "the elderly and people on low incomes".

Mr Clark added: "The senior government advisor putting this idea forward is not only adding to the red tape and bureaucracy we already have in this country.

"He is openly bragging that he wants to make the form as complex as possible to fill in."

A department of health spokeswoman did not rule out such a scheme as part of the next wave of tobacco regulation.

She said: "We will be consulting later this year on the next steps on tobacco control.

"Ministers are seeking input from a whole range of stakeholders."

 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/7247470.stm
« Last Edit: February 16, 2008, 12:54:19 PM by ChristiansUnited4LessGvt »
"Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall!" - Ronald Reagan - June 12, 1987

Michael Tee

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #12 on: February 16, 2008, 01:09:52 PM »
<<hey michael i have a question
how does canadian healthcare handle smoking?>>

Same way they handle any other self-inflicted disease or injury.  Everyone's covered.

We have a good friend who's one of the top lung specialists in the country.  Once he saved this guy's life who smoked three packs a day and ordered him to quit smoking.  The operation and post-op care cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.  Six months later the guy was back with the same thing and he hadn't even cut back on the three packs.  Our friend was furious and refused to operate - - the guy's family issued a claim and the doctor had to back off and take the guy in again.

I once argued the issue with a labour union official - - the union guy argued that the smoking itself was a sickness, an addiction, the lung cancer and emphysema were just complications of the original illness.

Personally, I'd tax the shit out of the tobacco companies, tax their profits and then tax their after-tax earnings and investments with special health-care taxes.  They're already heavily taxed, but nowhere near heavily enough.  If they insist on selling poison, they gotta pay for the cure.

Amianthus

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #13 on: February 16, 2008, 01:10:35 PM »
like if if citizen A does not smoke he pays his taxes for healthcare
but if citizen B decides to smoke 4 packs a day, does the heavy smoker pay the same for healthcare?
i think here in the US some would pay more for their policy and some dont

In the US, it depends on the type of policy. If it's a "group" policy - like most employers have - they cannot charge one member of the group more than another member of the group. But, if one group has higher payouts year after year, they will increase the total cost of the insurance to the group, so everyone in the group would pay more.

If you have an individual policy, your health habits will directly impact your premiums - ie, you are a group of one.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Michael Tee

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Re: alright damn it- lets talk about it
« Reply #14 on: February 16, 2008, 01:13:27 PM »
<<In the US, it depends on the type of policy. If it's a "group" policy - like most employers have - they cannot charge one member of the group more than another member of the group. But, if one group has higher payouts year after year, they will increase the total cost of the insurance to the group, so everyone in the group would pay more.>>

Same in Canada - - only the group is the entire Provincial population.