Author Topic: Saddam Hussein executed  (Read 24575 times)

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Michael Tee

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #75 on: January 03, 2007, 04:04:30 PM »
<<You do not have any indication that any such crime happens on a day to day basis , nor do you have any reason to think that such crimes happen more often per man day for this occupation than for any other?>>

Common sense.  When you have 140,000 loser punks with guns and a don't-give-a-shit commander in chief you're gonna have a whole lot of senseless violence, as much of it as possible covered up and only once in a while rising to public view.  The rape of that teenage girl and the murder of her family would never have seen the light of day had not the Iraqi Resistance seen fit to take revenge on other members of the platoon, causing the weakest link to crack and tell the story.  Common sense tells you that most of these apes get away with what they do.

I'm not saying that every one of them spends every day of his tour raping and killing and torturing, but there's gotta be plenty more where that came from and nobody except the victims and their families will ever know.

Calumnny my ass.

Michael Tee

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #76 on: January 03, 2007, 04:08:25 PM »
<<Just spouting those places/events is supposed to validate the accusation.  In Tee's realm of the universe, that is>>

Whereas in sirs' world, to "spout" the name of Abu Ghraib is to prove that nothing ever happened there.  Sirs could watch a guy being dismantled by a chainsaw and deny the whole thing ever happened, as long as the guys holding the chainsaw were American troops.

sirs

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #77 on: January 03, 2007, 04:10:16 PM »
<<Just spouting those places/events is supposed to validate the accusation.  In Tee's realm of the universe, that is>>

Whereas in sirs' world, to "spout" the name of Abu Ghraib is to prove that nothing ever happened there.  Sirs could watch a guy being dismantled by a chainsaw and deny the whole thing ever happened, as long as the guys holding the chainsaw were American troops.

Never said such or even implied.  Though I realize how likely impossible this is, please try to keep it honest, Tee
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #78 on: January 03, 2007, 04:11:43 PM »
<<The purpose of killing a lot of innocent bystanders in Iraq is to make an Impression on Americans.>>

Wrong, it's to incite a civil war.

<<The purpose of killing Americans is the same , but the Americans take more work to kill , so killing a market full or a Mosque full of unarmed people is worth doing.>>

Wrong again, it's to drive an invading army out.  If Muslims invaded the USA and American resistance fighters killed Muslim occupiers, would that be "to make an impression" also?


   <<Should the world belong to the most ruthless?>>

Ask your war-criminal "President" and his war-criminal cabinet members - - they sure think so.

Michael Tee

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #79 on: January 03, 2007, 04:14:53 PM »
<<Never said such or even implied.  Though I realize how likely impossible this is, please try to keep it honest, Tee>>

Right, sirs.  As honest as "just spouting those places/events is supposed to validate the accusation?"  Or "the lack of such acts proves such acts?"  Sure, sirs.  Whatever you say.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #80 on: January 03, 2007, 04:21:58 PM »
Unfortunately, XO, your cry is just as simplistic and unrealistic as victory proponents'.
======================================================

Simplistic?   Unrealistic?

Why, pray tell, oh Great Doméd one?

I suppose you are going to tell me that a Shiite Iraq would murder innocent people in Omaha in their beds.
And I don't think there is one shred of evidence that this is the case.

Iraqis should decide who and how Iraq is run, period.

And I should not have pay taxes so the Marines or the Army should decide because Dick Stupid Cheney thinks I should.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

sirs

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #81 on: January 03, 2007, 04:23:11 PM »
<<Never said such or even implied.  Though I realize how likely impossible this is, please try to keep it honest, Tee>>

Right, sirs.  As honest as "just spouting those places/events is supposed to validate the accusation?"  Or "the lack of such acts proves such acts?" 

No, because I could likely reference several scenarios where you frequently would use the lack of evidence as evidence tact.  Demonstrating how Good the Government is in covering up their nefarious acts.  and when called on to demonstrate the supposed widespread abuses by the military, we keep getting "Abu Graib".  So, despite your effort, your tact was egregiously dishonest, where as I could point to examples of precisely what I was referencing.

And your problem is, everyone else with a rational mind knows it as well.  You again are only fooling yourself, (and knute), with the asanine idea that I've implied nothing bad has ever taken place with the military or that the military can supposedly do no wrong
« Last Edit: January 03, 2007, 06:31:28 PM by sirs »
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

domer

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #82 on: January 03, 2007, 04:24:31 PM »
I must chime in and condemn Tee for his blood libel against American troops, whom I exalt. As with any population, you will have failures-by-the-services'-own-standards, but they are exceptional, aberrant. Michael begs the question of the wisdom of having a miliatary at all, holed up in his comfortable, Canadian enclave playing avenging angel to the "bad guys" of the world, but all the while eschewing any responsibility for world governance. Michael's outrage rings hollow because it is not accompanied by any sense of reality more complex than a conflict-free nirvana, which he inveighs for but doesn't in any sense lead us to. Right now, brave men and women -- ON THE HEELS OF A COLOSSAL MISTAKE -- are trying to make a situation run awry turn out as best as it can given the realities. Properly conceived and realistically perceived, there is great honor and dignity in what they do.

Michael Tee

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #83 on: January 03, 2007, 06:36:18 PM »
<<No, because I could likely reference several scenarios where you frequently would use the lack of evidence as evidence tact.>>

Sorry, never happened.  What you're missing is that I can explain the dearth (scarcity) of evidence by postulating a cover-up, but that proof of the existence of the undisclosed crimes ALWAYS rests on some evidence other than the bare fact of no evidence.  In other words, upon circumstantial evidence, connecting the dots, etc.  Common sense and simple knowledge of how the world works, which for some reason you seem to have no inkling of.

sirs

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #84 on: January 03, 2007, 06:52:35 PM »
<<No, because I could likely reference several scenarios where you frequently would use the lack of evidence as evidence tact.>>

Sorry, never happened.  What you're missing is that I can explain the dearth (scarcity) of evidence by postulating a cover-up, but that proof of the existence of the undisclosed crimes ALWAYS rests on some evidence other than the bare fact of no evidence.  In other words, upon circumstantial evidence, connecting the dots, etc.  Common sense and simple knowledge of how the world works, which for some reason you seem to have no inkling of.

Sorry in return, as it's been implied numerous times by you.  Every time someone tries to get you to validate the moronic accusations of how sinister Bush is, how he's condoned and advocated mass torture, how they've (Bush Co) manipulated and placed in power precisely who THEY wanted in power, etc., etc., gets met with mass references of non-existant dots and just proving how well it's all kept "covered up".  Common sense, and more so, current reality and facts to the contrary, blows your predisopsition of "how the world works" and just how evil Bush and our American military is, out of the water.  Whatever world you live in, please no invitations

Now, show us where I ever even implied (much less said) how our military could "do no wrong".  Reference how I supposedly claimed nothing bad ever happened at Abu Graib.  Go for it
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #85 on: January 03, 2007, 07:03:58 PM »
<<I . . . condemn Tee for his blood libel against American troops, whom I exalt. >>

Well, there's your problem right there.  It's as unreasonable to exalt them as to condemn the whole God-damn bunch of them.

<<As with any population, you will have failures-by-the-services'-own-standards, but they are exceptional, aberrant.>>

Plenty of Germans made the exact same argument.

<< Michael begs the question of the wisdom of having a miliatary at all . . . >>

That's total bullshit.  I've regretted the necessity but never questioned the wisdom.  As I've said more than once in this group, we need a military like a junk-yard needs a Rottweiler, but there's no need to exalt the Rottweiler.   A vicious animal is just that, a vicious animal - - certainly nothing to hold up as a role model.  It's a tragedy indeed that in this fucked-up world, we need a whole class of muscle-bound morons whose one overriding talent lies in maiming and killing their fellow human beings, but need them we do.  It's just like the Rottweiler though - - the owner has to realize it's not his best buddy and he'd better keep in mind who's the boss.  Because they can turn.

<< . . . holed up in his comfortable, Canadian enclave >>

comfortable because we don't fuck with other people and other people don't fuck with us.  You should try it sometime.  Try stopping the exploitation, the imperialism, the fascism, the racism and start treating other people like what they actually are - - human beings with their own aspirations and dreams.  Or don't.  Keep on fucking with them and watch your GDP being frittered away on "homeland security" and "Iraqi democracy" while your competitors in Europe, Brazil and Asia run rings around you and ultimately reduce you to the third-world status you seem to be so bent on achieving.

<<playing avenging angel to the "bad guys" of the world, but all the while eschewing any responsibility for world governance. >>

Take up the white man's burden, send forth the best ye breed?  When it finally penetrates the American psyche that the people of the Third World do not appreciate your assumption of responsibility for world governance, maybe you'll be able to look after some very pressing problems you have in your own backyard.  Better people than you have gone down that road and it didn't end well for them either.  Much better people.

<<Michael's outrage rings hollow because it is not accompanied by any sense of reality more complex than a conflict-free nirvana, which he inveighs for but doesn't in any sense lead us to. >>

Right, and just when and where did I "inveigh for" a "conflict-free nirvana?"  You do sound like a defence lawyer right now, though.  I can picture you defending some thug who just beat his wife to a bloody pulp, asking the judge, "What do you expect, your Honour, that my client should live in a conflict-free nirvana?"  Sometimes, domer, a healthy dose of reality is in order, even if you don't get the opportunity to toss off such neat-sounding phrases.

<<Right now, brave men and women -- ON THE HEELS OF A COLOSSAL MISTAKE -- are trying to make a situation run awry turn out as best as it can given the realities. >>

They're thugs and killers, doing what thugs and killers do, i.e., killing, maiming and destroying a lot of property.  Some of them are raping and torturing to while away the time.  Open your fucking eyes.

<<Properly conceived and realistically perceived, there is great honor and dignity in what they do.>>

Yeah and my Rottweiler's a candidate for sainthood.

domer, hopefully one day you will realize that force should be the very last resort in international relations, and that that realization is NOT "inveighing for" a "conflict-free nirvana," it's pretty much the basic ideal of the United Nations, which your own Presidents Roosevelt and Truman invested so much work in.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2007, 07:34:34 PM by Michael Tee »

Michael Tee

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #86 on: January 03, 2007, 07:07:36 PM »
<<Now, show us where I ever even implied (much less said) how our military could "do no wrong".  Reference how I supposedly claimed nothing bad ever happened at Abu Graib.  Go for it>>

When you show me first where I connect non-existent dots or claim that no evidence of X proves X.

sirs

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #87 on: January 03, 2007, 07:18:50 PM »
<<Now, show us where I ever even implied (much less said) how our military could "do no wrong".  Reference how I supposedly claimed nothing bad ever happened at Abu Graib.  Go for it>>

When you show me first where I connect non-existent dots or claim that no evidence of X proves X.

Been there done that.  Abu Graib --> supposed widespread mass military abuse & torture.  Lack of evidence of Bush Administration supporting torture --> Demonstrates how well their policy for torture is covered up.  Candidate US backed to lead Iraq gets throttled in the elections --> proves how current Prime Minister of Iraq was placed there by the U.S.  I could go on, but the examples are a plenty

Ball in your court.  Or can we all now concede for the rest of our readers how dishonest your accusation was the 1st go around       8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #88 on: January 03, 2007, 07:30:28 PM »
<<Been there done that. ..>>

Wrong

 <<Abu Graib --> supposed widespread mass military abuse & torture. >>

Wrong.  Abu Ghraib + Guantanamo + rendition + Baghram Base + lack of prosecution of high-ranking officers + lack of serious penalties for troops + continuing cover-up (over 90% of Abu Ghraib photos and videos still withheld by Pentagon) + President's refusal to renounce torture + administration memos denouncing Geneva Conventions + torture in other military bases in Iraq, etc.)

<<  Lack of evidence of Bush Administration supporting torture --> Demonstrates how well their policy for torture is covered up.  >>

Wrong.  There IS no lack of evidence that the Bush administration supports torture.

<<Candidate US backed to lead Iraq gets throttled in the elections --> proves how current Prime Minister of Iraq was placed there by the U.S. >>

Wrong.  This proof that the current PM was put in place by the U.S. is that the legislature's first choice was unacceptable to the Bush administration and did not take office.

<< I could go on, but the examples are a plenty>>

Yeah, but they're all examples of you being wrong.  Why don't you try to find some examples that prove you are right?

sirs

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Re: Saddam Hussein executed
« Reply #89 on: January 03, 2007, 08:20:49 PM »
<<Abu Graib --> supposed widespread mass military abuse & torture. >>

Right.  Abu Ghraib + Guantanamo + rendition + Baghram Base (again simply spouting places where isolated incidents have occured) + lack of prosecution of high-ranking officers (means squat if it wasn't prompted by said high-ranking officers) + lack of serious penalties for troops (meaning they didn't get the death penalty to Tee's shagrin) + continuing cover-up  ( ;D see?)  President's refusal to renounce torture (despite the fact that he has) + administration memos denouncing Geneva Conventions (as it pertains to enemy combants.  Again, try to keep it honest) + torture in other military bases in Iraq, etc. (which again means squat if they're not under U.S conrol)

<<  Lack of evidence of Bush Administration supporting torture --> Demonstrates how well their policy for torture is covered up.  >>

Right.  There IS no lack of evidence that the Bush administration supports torture. (With the convenient ommission of such evidence)

<<Candidate US backed to lead Iraq gets throttled in the elections --> proves how current Prime Minister of Iraq was placed there by the U.S. >>

Right.  This proof that the current PM was put in place by the U.S. is that the legislature's first choice was unacceptable to the Bush administration and did not take office.   (Look at what you're typing Tee.  Again, not 1 SHRED of proof or evidence of any kind, just your concocted dots.  Gads, you're making my point)


<< I could go on, but the examples are a plenty>>

Yeah, but they're all examples of you being wrong.  Why don't you try to find some examples that prove you are right?

Been there done that.  Thanks for the assistance, big guy

"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle