Living with Guns...The Swiss Way

[Plane]

The particular neighborhood where Zimmerman lived did NOT have neighborhood watch and Zimmerman was basically a freelance vigilante.

 I see anyone doing something suspicious in my neighborhood, I will not stop the car or get out oif it, and I will just call the cops.

Zimmerman and Martin would both be better off had this fool stayed in his damned car. I am tired of talking about this, you are too damn dumb to bother with.

This might have been a mistake on his part , but I do not see it excusing an attempt at killing him.

[sirs]

Precisely.  Not to mention that Zimmerman DID call the police

[Xavier_Onassis]

Here is how "calling the police works:
(1) call the police.
(2) wait for them to arrive.
Zimmerman did not do this.
The dispatcher told him not to confront Martin.
And then he did.
Both Zimmerman and Martin would be better off today had he simply followed this suggestion.

[sirs]

There is no manual to follow, when calling the police.  Point is that Zimmerman did.  He was also attacked.   Without his firearm to defend himself he may be the one who died at the hands of his attacker.  And the Judicial system supported that scenario

[Plane]

Here is how "calling the police works:
(1) call the police.
(2) wait for them to arrive.
Zimmerman did not do this.
The dispatcher told him not to confront Martin.
And then he did.
Both Zimmerman and Martin would be better off today had he simply followed this suggestion.

There is no evidence that Mr Zimmerman attacked Mr Martin .
There may be a mistake on both sides , but this is not coming out even.

[hnumpah]

*Sigh* Since I'm here...

There is no manual to follow, when calling the police.  Point is that Zimmerman did.  He was also attacked.   Without his firearm to defend himself he may be the one who died at the hands of his attacker.  And the Judicial system supported that scenario

If I remember correctly, the only 'evidence' of Zimmerman being attacked were some injuries and his own statement...no one saw this alleged attack, or could say whether or not Zimmerman himself initiated the altercation. The only other direct witness was, conveniently for Zimmerman, dead.

There is no evidence that Mr Zimmerman attacked Mr Martin .
There may be a mistake on both sides , but this is not coming out even.

There is also no evidence he did not attack Martin. And no witnesses to substantiate either version. Barring that, the jury was stuck having to accept Zimmerman's version.

I support gun rights. I support 'stand your ground'. Most of all, I support telling the whole truth, not slanting it to support some agenda.

[sirs]

Welcome hack, H.  Nice to see an old saloon friend, and hope your visit can be extended. 

IIRC there was an entire judicial process that corroborated the events, as Zimmerman statements originally described.  Nor do I believe that Martin would have backed up Zimmerman's account either.  I don't believe either myself of Plane are slanting anything to support some agenda.  Speaking for myself, I'm simply acknowledging that the courts didn't find Zimmerman as the aggressor in any way.  True, that there was no "hard evidence", merely that the circumstantial evidence, including not just injuries, but I believe an eye witness did see Martin on top of Zimmerman, backed up those original statements.  Much like the Missouri shooting, nothing there is pushing some agenda. 

The folks pushing an agenda would be those who couldn't wait to make it all about race

[Plane]

If I remember correctly, the only 'evidence' of Zimmerman being attacked were some injuries and his own statement...no one saw this alleged attack, or could say whether or not Zimmerman himself initiated the altercation. The only other direct witness was, conveniently for Zimmerman, dead.

...............

There is also no evidence he did not attack Martin. And no witnesses to substantiate either version. Barring that, the jury was stuck having to accept Zimmerman's version.

I support gun rights. I support 'stand your ground'. Most of all, I support telling the whole truth, not slanting it to support some agenda.

I do not think that the "stand your ground" law was involved in this incident.

If Mr Zimmerman might have attacked first , how would he have done this?

It makes no sense that he might have attacked with his gun, then he would have no injury.

Mr Martin had only a single injury , no marks from punches , kicks or holds.

That Mr Zimmerman had injuries and had no time to self inflict them , does strike me as significant.

If the gun had been brandished , the struggle would have been entirely over the gun .

The evidence is not so complete that it produces certainty, but the preponderance of what became provable was consistent with Mr. Zimmerman's first statement.

Since that time Mr Zimmerman has put up with a lot of vilification and even a little stalking , but even so he is most likely better off having had his gun than not.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Look: had this fool just stayed in his fucking truck and driven home and left Martin alone, Martin would be alive, and Zimmerman would not be leading the rather miserable life that is now his lot.  He did not need his damned gun to drive around and observe the neighborhood. He was the wrong guy to do this anyway, because he was a hothead and a dipshit.

Martin was also a hothead and a dipshit, but younger so he had a better excuse.

Perhaps is Zimmerman was not armed, he would have done the right thing and stayed in his moving truck. 

[sirs]

Why you keep harping on what he could have done, is moot.  He could have slept in....he could have gone miniature golfing....he could have sat and binge watched Breaking Bad.  Coulda/woulda/shoulda....matters not.  What matters are the facts of what DID happen, and the courts have supported Zimmerman's account of what happened.  And he's still alive due to the fact he defended himself with a firearm

And this had noting with Stand Your Ground, either

[Plane]

Look: had this fool just stayed in his fucking truck and driven home and left Martin alone, Martin would be alive, and Zimmerman would not be leading the rather miserable life that is now his lot.  He did not need his damned gun to drive around and observe the neighborhood. He was the wrong guy to do this anyway, because he was a hothead and a dipshit.

Martin was also a hothead and a dipshit, but younger so he had a better excuse.

Perhaps is Zimmerman was not armed, he would have done the right thing and stayed in his moving truck.

You really mean that approaching a stranger in your own neighborhood is unforgivable?
Or that just getting out of your car anywhere but your own house is grounds for execution?

I see this position as poorly thought out.

If Mr. Martin had been too polite to knock Mr. Zimmerman down and beat his head onto the pavement , this would have been an exceedingly minor incident leaving both alive and perhaps earning an apology for each other being suspicious of each other.

One of these guys might or might not have been impolite, the other one definitely did assault, that is not an even distribution of responsibility.

[Xavier_Onassis]

It is not unforgivable, it is stupid.
He was looking for trouble and so was Martin. And Zimmerman should have known that, but he was simply stupid.


If Zimmerman were here talking about this, he would agree that he was stupid.
He would be better off today had he been LESS stupid.

I bet you and probably even sirs are not so stupid as to go driving around playing vigilante.
 You have a right to dress in a gorilla suit and parade about the Mall.
But is is also stupid, albeit more amusing to the passersby.
Now sirs can chime in that gorilla suit wearing is not a fundamental right guaranteed by the sacred Constitution and thre Federalist Papers.

And that would also be stupid. Gorilla suit wearing is not mentioned by the US Constitution, and I doubt that there is an actual law against it.
It might be disorderly conduct if the Mall Cops lacked a sense of humor.

[Plane]

  In political circumstances a gorilla suit might be first amendment protected speech.

    But wearing a mask into a bank is not .

   Walking or driving along ones own streets and sidewalks should not be contrary to anyone's rights.

   I have not actually worn a gorilla suit ever.

     But I have joined an impromptu posse that chased down a burglar.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Wearing a gorilla suit is stupid. Like confronting some guy walking about your neighborhood.
I would refrain from either. And I am sure that now Zimmerman is aware that he did something stupid.

[sirs]

Coming across "some guy" in the neighborhood isn't stupid.  I came across "some guy" yesterday myself.  I was walking my dog, and upon coming up to him, he came across as very pleasant & neighborly. 

Unless of course you're implying Martin was dressed and acting like a thug.  Is THAT what you're implying??