The value of suffering

[Xavier_Onassis]

I find your belief in angels quaint. Why would an omnipotent God need helpers?  You are surely aware that the usual depictions of an angel would be incapable of flight due to the laws of physics.

But okay, let us say there are angels. But if they did not have free will, then how was it that Lucifer decided to rebel?

Surely an omnipotent and omnibenevolent deity would be able to design a non rebellious angel.

There are supposedly lots and lots of angels, organized in ranks and castes and such, but we have only been informed of several names. Abaddon, Beelzebul, Gabriel, Michael, and Satan.  Three are fallen angels and two serve God. I have also heard the name Azuriel. he is the Hebrew angel of death. And there is Metatron, the 'Voice of God'

Gargamel's cat bears his name. Gargamel is the enemy of the Smurfs, and the creator of Smurfette, the only female Smurf.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel


I believe in angels about as much as I believe in Smurfs.

[sirs]

Good for you.   It's apparent we'll never meet, in any way or existence beyond this puny planet.   That's probably a good thing

[Xavier_Onassis]

God will recognize my talents and honesty if he has any sense.
I won't be singing in the Choir Celestial, though.

The idea that God punishes non-believers I find quaint.
My kitty did not acknowledge my existence about 14 hours of the day.
But I fed her anyway.

[Plane]

Why would an omnipotent God need helpers? 

Need or want I don't know .

Nor do I know how separate from God they are.

Seeing the problems that God had in dealing directly with Adam and Moses , he might have wanted something smaller and milder to bring word sometimes.

That is just supposing , I would not be surprised to be refuted on that supposition.

[Xavier_Onassis]

That is just supposing , I would not be surprised to be refuted on that supposition.

It is a common supposition, Talmudic scholars decided that God's voice was too powerful for human ears, and came up with the Angel Metatron, aka The Voice of God.

If you like speculation stories about angels, the film Dogma is the best ever. It also has George Carlin as a bishop and Chris Rock as the 13th disciple, and God is played by ...better leave it as a surprise. Most religious pictures are not at all funny. Of course this is a HERETICAL religious picture.

Anyway, Lucifer would have to have had free will in order to rebel, else God have to purposefully create Satan, which destroys the idea of omnibenevolence.
 

[sirs]

God will recognize my talents and honesty if he has any sense.

God only "recognizes" those (as in accepting them into the kingdom of heaven), who recognize him.  so sorry you won't be dining with us apparently.  And no, he does't punish non-believers.  They simply go to hell

[Xavier_Onassis]

That is what the Bible says.


But I reject the Bible as being any sort of divine thing.

[sirs]

Which is why you won't be joining us, obviously

[Xavier_Onassis]

It is not obvious at all. You really should READ the Bible, sirs.

[Plane]

Is the principal of "omnibenevolence" found in scripture?

I am really not familiar with it.

[sirs]

It is not obvious at all. You really should READ the Bible, sirs.

I have, which makes it clear, with multiple passages & references, that only those who've accepted Jesus Christ as their savior, get to enter the kingdom of God.  And since you've made it painfully clear your choice of not recognizing God as such, you won't be joining us

It doesn't get more obvious than that

[Xavier_Onassis]

Is the principal of "omnibenevolence" found in scripture?

I am really not familiar with it.

It does not appear in the Bible. The idea is that anything and everything that God does in by definition good and morally pure. It is frequently used in philosophy and theology books, but the Roman Catholic Church does not use it. My thesis advisor was a defrocked priest and he used it, usually to accuse Mexican politicians of pretending that they were omnibenevolent.

The Bible does not use the terms omniscience, omnipresent, or omnipotent, either, at least not in the English language Bibles I have read. They are Latin terms, not Greek, Aramaic or Hebrew, so this is understandable.

In Mexico a lot of former Jesuits teach humanities and philosophy courses. All  those I know are far better at teaching  such things than those I was taught by in the US. I cannot say that this is universal.  They all left the Church to get married, by the way.

Wikipedia says this about it.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnibenevolence

[sirs]

Actually it does.....multiple times.  So sad you've chosen to miss out.  Then again, as I mentioned earlier, it's probably a good thing

[Xavier_Onassis]

The concept is perhaps mentioned; the specific word is not.

[sirs]

The concept is about a specific as it can get, when you read the Bible. 

Boy, this must be really bothering you to spend so much time trying to rebut something that supposedly doesn't pertain to you.  Stop worrying about it.