The Facts In Iraq Are Changing

[_JS]

I'm not calling anyone racist.

What I'm saying is this: African-Americans are just as intelligent and informed as any other voter in America. Why do they vote for Democrats in large ratios?

To his credit, President Bush did not use the thinking expressed here and simply noted that his party had failed to reach out to blacks and Hispanic voters. He did not succeed with African-Americans, but he did do better with Hispanics. For Republicans or Conservatives to succeed with African-Americans they cannot talk about "welfare pimps" or "liberal elitism."

The truth is that African-Americans tend to believe in a strong sense of community and society. There are problems with racism in this nation.

[fatman]

In law .

Jim Crow died and got replaced by his weaker cousin ,affirmative action. Some conservatives would like to bury affermative action in a grave next to Jim Crow but no one that can be taken seriously wants to see Jim reserected.

That's a good answer, and somewhat expected.  Does the desired demise of Jim Crow justify affirmative action?  I've personally never quite agreed with affirmative action, but I can understand the reasons for its implementation.  The main problem that I have with it is the precedent, we all know how hard it is to get rid of a program or policy once it's in place.  I think that this goes back to one of your original points.

Conservatives understand the means diffrently alright, but in either camp the means should be considered to be more important than the ends.
The means are now and for years, when are ends?

The means are certainly important, though I'm not sure that they are as important as the end.  Sometimes it seems like (to some people at least) the means become the end: that goes back to the precedent idea that I referenced above.  I think that both sides have some laudable ideas for achieving the end, and both sides have some bad ones.  I guess that's why I'm generally a moderate on most things.

While I can understand your point about the means being more important, I don't think that I agree with it.  What is important is to eliminate the confusion inherent when the means become the ends.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Affirmative action is not the brother of Jim Crow. It's the antithesis of it.

It certainly did not benefit me. In the early 1960's, there was a shortage of Spanish teachers in the US.
Two events then occurred: practically the entire Cuban middle class was given entry to the US, and someone decided that because Mexican-Americans were mistreated for blue collar work in the 1940's and 50's, Hispanics (not just Mexicans) were to be given preference in hiring.

Many blue-collar employers didn't pay any attention to this, but schools, most of which were government controlled or governmentally financed did. The best place to put a Hispanic in the school was as a Spanish teacher or professor. So by the time I get my MA degree, I apply for jobs and they hire some guy who just arrived from Peru, Chile, or Costa Rica. (But, so far as I know, never Mexico).

So I get a job with a minority college that pays about 25% less per year for the next 32 years.

The thing is that the Mexicans that were discriminated against did not and most still do not have college degrees, so they could not be given jobs as Spanish teachers and professors.

[Cynthia]

That's enough of the personal garbage.

Gotta love this board! Nice Intermde, FM.

Love your rainbow too, dude!
Cindy

[fatman]

Thanks

[ZoSo]

Great site, Zoso.


I wouldn't know. I took the image off of Google. I have no idea what site it came from.

[Cynthia]

Thanks

You're welcome.

[fatman]

It is Pride week after all.  I don't do the Parades, but I thought an avatar change might be appropriate.

[Plane]

Affirmative action is not the brother of Jim Crow. It's the antithesis of it.

Strange, I thought "antithesis" was a synonym of "opposite".

[Cynthia]

It is Pride week after all.  I don't do the Parades, but I thought an avatar change might be appropriate.

Well, I am proud of you, Fatman. You are a true American...and a good egg.

[Cynthia]

Great site, Zoso.


I wouldn't know. I took the image off of Google. I have no idea what site it came from.

What was the point you were trying to make, just curious? ( with the image, that is)

[Xavier_Onassis]

Strange, I thought "antithesis" was a synonym of "opposite".

Jeez. No, it is not an opposite, it indicates a reaction.

Jim Crow was the stimulus, Affirmative action was the reaction to Jim Crow.

This is a process known as the Hegelian dialectic, which describes how ideas progress in a historical context.

Here is what Wikipedia says about this:

Although he never used the terms himself, the triad thesis, antithesis, synthesis is often used to describe the thought of German philosopher Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel. It is often erroneously[1] thought to form part of an analysis of historical and philosophical progress called the Hegelian dialectic.

It is usually described in the following way:

    * The thesis is an intellectual proposition.
    * The antithesis is simply the negation of the thesis.
    * The synthesis solves the conflict between the thesis and antithesis by reconciling their common truths, and forming a new proposition.

Hegel used this classification only once, and he attributed the terminology to Immanuel Kant. The terminology was largely developed earlier by Fichte the neo-Kantian. The idea is often said to have been extended and adopted by Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels; yet Marx referred to them in The Poverty of Philosophy as speaking Greek and "Wooden trichotomies".

[Plane]

So "antithesis" is something like , "recriprocal", a term multiplied by its recripricol produces unity, so does a term divided by its recriprocal.



What synthesis do you look for that might solves the conflict between the Jim Crow  and the Affirmative action?

[Xavier_Onassis]

What synthesis do you look for that might solves the conflict between the Jim Crow  and the Affirmative action?


The election of Obama would certainly be a start.

Certainly not the crap that RR and 4CU have been posting.

Every action provokes a reaction. Eventually the two combine in a synthesis, which becomes a new action.

Obama himself is a synthesis: Black (but not Black American) father, white mother, raised in the Midwest and Hawaii without the Southern/ ghetto conflicts. A Black politician that understands White folks at the level of his own family.

In Hegelian terms, to oppose Obama's election  is antihistorical in a variety of ways.

There are three major themes in American politics: Black vs. White, War vs. Peace, Rich vs. poor.
McCain: White, War, Rich.
Obama: Black, Peace, poor.

Of course Obama was raised as White as a Black man could be raised.
He was poor as a child, and overcame his poverty.
He does not represent the long tradition of war after war after war as McCain does.

[Plane]

The election of Obama would certainly be a start.

Reparations might be cheaper.