The Facts In Iraq Are Changing

[Christians4LessGvt]

"Nowhere did you state clearly what conservatism brings to the table, just a tirade"

Come on Fatman, it's almost funny, can you not read? I say that half-jokingly.
Or again do you just ignore what you want to? Honestly did ya miss it?
I spoke about school choice and ending the holocaust of Black babies (abortion).
How can you possibly ignore those two issues?

And speaking personally, I'm sick of the personal name-calling and other horseshit that goes on here.

Did you have a change of heart with the F-bombs for the time being?
Oh yeah I think i do remember your Jimmy Swaggert "I have sinned" concerning that.
Ok Fatman what have I said so so horrible that equaled your F-bombs?
I have called someone a racist that implied or said I was?
I have said somone is last century because they cant "move on"?
Oh my how horrible?

"I don't care if it comes from Rich, you, XO, or whoever"

Or you?

Everytime I log on, there are guests (13 at one point today).  It's no wonder to me why they don't join. 

I wonder how many were lurking when you dropped an F bomb or when you are posting about how you dont like people personally?
Oh nuts  just if XO didn't call the Republican nominee a "WHORE" or the sitting President and Vice President "war criminals"
all the lurkers would come running in to join! If Michael wasn't F-this and F=that when he is either excited or drunk I really
dont know which it is, yep they'd all join up.

Now you want to sit there and try to get personal with me,

Only after you mischaracterize my views and posts and pretend you are on some high dignity horse
when you almost never say anything about what XO, and others say but seem consumed to call
out Rich and myself. I dont care I just want to point out what a fraud your high horse is.

You preach about civility but it is you that have used the F bomb and that is something I have NEVER done in here.

It's just a bit ironic and funny to see the sinner suddenly be the high and mighty preacher screaming down from the pulpit
about the sinners.


But it takes two to tango, and this fatman is no dancer.

Oh I know that very well.
You like it one way.
Thats fine and dandy when it's one of your "buds".
You "suddenly" condemn the insults ONLY after I counter-punch.
Then pretend to be some fraud "high horse".
You're mostly no where to be found about it when it involves others.


You're right, I don't like you, and it has absolutely nothing to do with your politics.  I like sirs, and he's conservative.

Oh yes it does.
I am an Ann Coulter/Mark Levin type of conservative.
We are not liked by your type.
Plus you are probaly aware I consider homosexuality disgusting and do not approve of it.
It's a hot button issue with you like Michelle Obama is CONSUMED with race.
So you become a hater because I dont buy into the homo agenda.
Ask me if I care?
I dont want to be your friend or seek your approval.
Nah Nah Nah whose the most popular?
Jezzz

"I like Plane, and he's conservative.  Ami and BT, I don't know about their political identifications, but I like them too. 
I like pretty much everyone on here but a couple of people, and you're one" 

Awesome!
I'll wear that as a badge of honor.
Or wait a minute, maybe I'm crushed
Booo whoooooooo. 

Why not propose an alternative, a positive change of some sort, or a new idea based on your political principles?

See above Fatman I did you just cant read or pretend it's not there when you dont like it.

Or is ripping your opponent the only worthy accomplishment left here?

As far as "ripping" I counter-punch.
XO calls my guy a "WHORE" and implies/says I am a racist( which by the way you say NOTHING about...where's the outrage?
Then I defend myself and my candidate.
If thats what you call "ripping" so be it.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Reparations might be cheaper.

That is snide bullsh*t and you know it. There will never BE any reparations.

Racism will continue to fester until the racists know that they have lost and their time has ended.

The middle class will continue to decline until serious changes are made about how the wealth is distributed.

What could possibly cost more than another couple of terms of Iraq War, with Halliburton & Co. robbing us blind for every item, private mercenary companies ripping us off, the dollar spiraling down into an endless black hole?

If we are going to piss money away, let's piss it away here in the USA, not in Iraq.

[Cynthia]

"What could possibly cost more than another couple of terms of Iraq War, with Halliburton & Co. robbing us blind for every item, private mercenary companies ripping us off, the dollar spiraling down into an endless black hole?

If we are going to piss money away, let's piss it away here in the USA, not in Iraq."

After what I witnessed today....this makes so much sense!

[Plane]

What synthesis do you look for that might solves the conflict between the Jim Crow  and the Affirmative action?


Every action provokes a reaction. Eventually the two combine in a synthesis, which becomes a new action.

Obama himself is a synthesis: Black (but not Black American) father, white mother, raised in the Midwest and Hawaii without the Southern/ ghetto conflicts. A Black politician that understands White folks at the level of his own family.

In Hegelian terms, to oppose Obama's election  is antihistorical in a variety of ways.

There are three major themes in American politics: Black vs. White, War vs. Peace, Rich vs. poor.
McCain: White, War, Rich.
Obama: Black, Peace, poor.

Of course Obama was raised as White as a Black man could be raised.
He was poor as a child, and overcame his poverty.
He does not represent the long tradition of war after war after war as McCain does.

Reparations might be cheaper.

That is snide bullsh*t and you know it. There will never BE any reparations.

Racism will continue to fester until the racists know that they have lost and their time has ended.

The middle class will continue to decline until serious changes are made about how the wealth is distributed.

What could possibly cost more than another couple of terms of Iraq War, with Halliburton & Co. robbing us blind for every item, private mercenary companies ripping us off, the dollar spiraling down into an endless black hole?

If we are going to piss money away, let's piss it away here in the USA, not in Iraq.

Affirmative action is reparations , stretched out over decades.

The Middle class is not declineing.

Looseing Iraq to Al Queda or Iran would be the most expensive result possible from the choices we make in the next few years. If we leave but have to go back , it will not be so easy next time.

Don't worry about the Dollar , its value has not been fixed since Nixon's presidency its flux is upsetting more than it is harmfull.

[Plane]

"What could possibly cost more than another couple of terms of Iraq War, with Halliburton & Co. robbing us blind for every item, private mercenary companies ripping us off, the dollar spiraling down into an endless black hole?

If we are going to piss money away, let's piss it away here in the USA, not in Iraq."

After what I witnessed today....this makes so much sense!

On the very eve of victory let us snatch defeat from the jaws of victory , who wants to win anyway?

During the Civil war that were scandals of war profiteers, some selling terribly substandard equipment to soldiers , tainted food , shredded blankets,.... , that is why the North lost!

[Xavier_Onassis]

We can supervise money being pissed away here.

It's a lot harder to supervise anything in Iraq. The deal is, we send money over there, they stuff it in their hidey-hole and one of their pals steals it.

They order trucks of gasoline, they sell it on the black market, and then they blow up the empty trucks so they can order more trucks.
Naturally, they blame the "insurgents" for everything.

It's a piece of cake ripping off Uncle Sugar in Iraq. The witnesses mostly speak Arabic, and they can be bribed, intimidated and shot, so as to not be witnesses at all.

This is hard to conceal in the US. We have witnesses when a welfare queen buys an Escalade, after all.

[Plane]

We can supervise money being pissed away here.

It's a lot harder to supervise anything in Iraq. The deal is, we send money over there, they stuff it in their hidey-hole and one of their pals steals it.

They order trucks of gasoline, they sell it on the black market, and then they blow up the empty trucks so they can order more trucks.
Naturally, they blame the "insurgents" for everything.

It's a piece of cake ripping off Uncle Sugar in Iraq. The witnesses mostly speak Arabic, and they can be bribed, intimidated and shot, so as to not be witnesses at all.

This is hard to conceal in the US. We have witnesses when a welfare queen buys an Escalade, after all.

So half or more attacks are actually frauds?

[Cynthia]

"What could possibly cost more than another couple of terms of Iraq War, with Halliburton & Co. robbing us blind for every item, private mercenary companies ripping us off, the dollar spiraling down into an endless black hole?

If we are going to piss money away, let's piss it away here in the USA, not in Iraq."

After what I witnessed today....this makes so much sense!

On the very eve of victory let us snatch defeat from the jaws of victory , who wants to win anyway?

During the Civil war that were scandals of war profiteers, some selling terribly substandard equipment to soldiers , tainted food , shredded blankets,.... , that is why the North lost!

What?
Plane, please explain the war in terms of " the American civil war" and this issue!

...with all the very depth of precise and accurate facts, please.

This is NOT YOUR civil war of the mid 19th century.

[Christians4LessGvt]

There may never be any reparations but mainly because it wouldn't work.

If it would work, I agree Plane it would be well worth it.

Hell in many ways I think African Americans deserve reparations,
but one of the problems is, it wouldn't work very well. It may
help maginally, but not any where near a solution.

Unfornately Black Americans or so called "African Americans" have been infected with a "crutch".

That "crutch" is deeply ingrained in who they are.

Difficult things happen in life, but they have been conditioned to
think "racism first" for any failures in life. When in reality
many times failure happens for reasons not related to race.

If you or I get turned down for a job we think "oh well".
If they get turned down the automatic response many times is "well it must be because I'm Black".

It is very harmful for a race and or culture to never look in the mirror for failures and always
blame a boogy man. Sure the boogy man still exists to some degree and did exist big time in the past,
but to almost never accept failure as your own damn fault, well in my opinion it is very detrimental to
so called "African Americans".

There is great hope though. Through education, real education, not the union controlled gvt
failure we now have, African Americans can reach their full potential. They have shown
to be quite talented in so many pursuits and when they produce excellence they are many
times greatly rewarded by a nation that is overwhelminbly White. If Blacks will ever grasp
the notion that excellent results, even if they must for the time being pay a higher price,
or walk a tougher road, it is excellence that will pave the road to their dreams of high
achievement for more of the entire race in America. Being driven to excel in education
is their best hope to emerge and become what they are capable of.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Affirmative action is reparations , stretched out over decades.

No, it isn't. That is utter nonsense.
==========================
The Middle class is not declineing.

Of course it is. Visit Detroit or Lansing sometime.
=======================

Looseing Iraq to Al Queda or Iran would be the most expensive result possible from the choices we make in the next few years. If we leave but have to go back , it will not be so easy next time.

We are not at war with Iran. If we have any damned sense, we never will be. The US cannot win a war with a nation of 77 million without a draft, and probably not with it. Americans will refuse to be drafted to attack Iran, which has not threatened a single American in America.

The US cannot win an Iraqi Civil War.
There will be no going back. We will end our dependency on foreign petroleum soon or we will decline rapidly. McCain is a buddy of Big Oil. There will be no solution if his ancient ass gets elected.
===================
Don't worry about the Dollar , its value has not been fixed since Nixon's presidency its flux is upsetting more than it is harmfull.

I am very worried. $5.00 Diesel is not upsetting it is truly harmful. We will have rampant inflation as a result of fighting a useless war on credit. Anything over 5% inflation is disastrous, and we are already there for some people.

Juniorbush is incompetence personified. Cheney is a one-man military industrial complex. And McCain is just a sixth act to what has been a very, very bad play.

[Xavier_Onassis]

There is great hope though. Through education, real education, not the union controlled gvt
failure we now have, the African Americans can reach their full potential. They have shown
to be quite talented in so many pursuits and when they produce excellence they are many
times greatly rewarded by a nation that is overwhelminbly White. If Blacks will ever grasp
the notion that excellent results, even if they must for the time being pay a higher price,
or walk a tougher road, it is excellence that will pave the road to their dreams of high
achievement for more of the entire race in America. Being driven to excel in education
is there best hope to emerge and become what they are capable of.


Yeah, what is your plan, genius? Tell teachers they cannot have unions?
Hand over the schools to the nuns?

Being as I have been teaching Black people for the past 32 years, I can assure you that those who fail to learn do so because they lack the gumption to do so. Teachers care  about their students learning more than I bet you have cared about anything. What would you do when a 20 year old student decides to get pregnant and drops out forever? It's not like there is anyone forcing anyone to get pregnant or even stay pregnant.  What do you do when a student misses half the semester or refuses to buy the book or even copy pages from the book in the library so they can actually learn in class?

Do unionized teachers make students stay out of class, spend their money on designer clothes and fancy nails instead of books, or get knocked up? Lemme tell you my own professional opinion: you don't know Jack. I am pretty sure you will never know him, either.

Black people get educated the same way anyone else does: they get the book, they come to class, they study and master the subject. Many do, a lot do not. The same is true for any group of students. Each one is an individual. Each one makes their own decisions.

[fatman]

Oh yes it does.
I am an Ann Coulter/Mark Levin type of conservative.
We are not liked by your type.
Plus you are probaly aware I consider homosexuality disgusting and do not approve of it.
It's a hot button issue with you like Michelle Obama is CONSUMED with race.
So you become a hater because I dont buy into the homo agenda.

If you think that I base my political beliefs solely on a candidate's support of gay rights, would you like to explain to me why I've voted for a Republican President ever since I was able to vote (1996)?  I make no apologies to you or anyone else for being gay, and I could care less if you find it disgusting.  I don't hate you.  I just don't like you.  And it has nothing to do with you buying into the homo agenda.  Again, I like Plane and he is about as far from the "homo agenda" as you can get.  The reason that I don't like you is that you're childish, your postings bring nothing to the debate, you seem to be incapable of original thought, you latch onto trivialities like saying fuck (though I notice that never dimmed your support of Rich), instead of posting an article that may provoke thought you post doctored pictures that are supposed to be funny (I'm assuming they're supposed to be funny, I've never thought they were).  

Again it has nothing to do with your politics.  And you've got a lot of nerve to accuse me of being myopic.

XO calls my guy a "WHORE" and implies/says I am a racist( which by the way you say NOTHING about...where's the outrage?

http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?topic=6549.msg65773#msg65773

Frankly, I don't know why anyone bothers to answer your posts.  I know that I'm done doing so, starting now.

[Christians4LessGvt]

"If you think that I base my political beliefs solely on a candidate's support of gay rights, would you like to explain to me why I've voted for a Republican President ever since I was able to vote (1996)?"

Making stuff up again? Where did I say you base your political beliefs on homo rights?
Just more grabbing stuff out of thin air that does not exist?
I said it was possibly a factor in your dislike of me.
It's obvious your "eaten up" with the issue.
Waving your little rainbows, whatever 
"I'm gay"...so what?! Like a freaking 3rd grader wanting attention.
Hey everybody "I'm hetro"....big friggin deal.

"I make no apologies to you or anyone else for being gay"

And I did not ask for nor would I accept an apology.
I dont want an apology from a homo.
What would that prove?
I just think the lifestyle is disgusting, sinful, and in many cases unhealthy.
But they certianly have the right to live a disgusting lifestyle.
I have homo friends and have hired homos.
To each his own as long as they are not granted "special rights".

"and I could care less if you find it disgusting"

and I could care less what you care less about

"I don't hate you.  I just don't like you"

Yeah sure.

And it has nothing to do with you buying into the homo agenda.

I suspect it is a part of it
and btw it's me NOT BUYING INTO

Again, I like Plane and he is about as far from the "homo agenda" as you can get.

Plane is great, but he is much more "politically correct".
He has some intention to "get along" with the other side.
I have no intention to "get along" and will fire back when fired on.
Myself, Ann Coulter,Mark Levin don't allow others to set the ground rules of debate.
And that is something some cant handle.
"Whatta ya mean you think the conservatives have the higher moral ground"
"That cant be, I thought we start from the point Liberals are more caring"
Uh no.....we Coulter/Levin/CU4 do not accept the traditional BS "ground rules".
And yes that ruffles some feathers.

The reason that I don't like you is that you're childish

Name calling again.
Hey all you lurkers, the high horse is on a roll again.
Ooooops but this time he didnt say F-ing childish.

your postings bring nothing to the debate

Is that why some of the posts I start have multiple pages
of responses? Again Fatman reality is what it is.

you seem to be incapable of original thought

can you give me an example of an original political thought that you have?
something that has never been thought of or said in human history?

"you latch onto trivialities like saying fuck"

LOL oh now it it's a "trivialty" if you act the jerk, but get on the high horse to condemn others.

(though I notice that never dimmed your support of Rich),

Firstly Rich is not normally on the high horse condemning others.
If Rich was one saying "hey now lets cut out the personal stuff" after he
used the Fword and used selective outrage...then yeah you'd be correct.

Plus I have advised Rich in the past.
Go ahead ask him Fatman if he did not withdraw a post about XO 100% because I convinced him it was inappropriate. I am not bragging, you made a false charge and I am responding. Ask him Fatman?
You think you know what you're talking about but once again are DEAD WRONG. Just recently I
directed a post to Rich concerning his words about the death of Tim Russsert. Again FATMAN is
DEAD WRONG.

"instead of posting an article that may provoke thought you post doctored pictures that are
supposed to be funny (I'm assuming they're supposed to be funny, I've never thought they were)."

Number one I probably post more articles than anyone else on this messsage board.
If I'm not number 1 am in the top 2 or 3 when I frequent this site.
Remember your little tantrum about copyrights and sourcing?
That was about posting articles not cartoons.
So once again your statement is DEAD WRONG.

Plus I find it very telling that you and others have no problem with this
other poster Hnumph or how ever it's spelled posting cartoons and such (someone
PM'd me and said there has been cartoons for years making fun of President Bush or
Vice President Cheney) and oh boy thats A-OK! Yeah sure thats so ha ha ha funny, but
when the counterpunch is served, showing funny stuff or make fun of stuff about
the other side HERE COMES THE OUTRAGE, SELECTIVE OUTRAGE.

"Again it has nothing to do with your politics"

I believe it does, but we can certainly agree to disagree.

"And you've got a lot of nerve to accuse me of being myopic"

Uh? where did I do that?

XO calls my guy a "WHORE" and implies/says I am a racist
( which by the way you say NOTHING about...where's the outrage?

http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?topic=6549.msg65773#msg65773

Oh boy that was really calling XO out!
That was harsh.
LOL

Frankly, I don't know why anyone bothers to answer your posts

Frankly I say the same about you.
You rarely add anything to cause debate.
You are like a jackyl, you dont start the fun, you sit back to nit pick.
We can compare threads started and the pages of discusssion those caused.
Now I am sure since I have brought this up you'll suddenly start getting more threads started
to cover. But we know the truth.

"I know that I'm done doing so, starting now"

Now that pleases me.
It's too easy finding the DEAD WRONGS.
Please try to keep your word this time though.

[fatman]

 

[Xavier_Onassis]

I thought he was criticizing me for saying that McCain was hiding lobbyists in his ample cheeks, as a squirrel carries acorns.