You're President, and you can control Congress

[_JS]

The people who currently build houses would build houses. Who else would you expect to build them?

How do you think they determined the balance of what was needed and who had what ability in the Book of Acts from where that quote is taken?

[sirs]

Js now advocating we become a religious-focused governing body??  ACLU isn't going to like that

[_JS]

Js now advocating we become a religious-focused governing body??  ACLU isn't going to like that

I imagine that the ACLU wouldn't like a lot of what I propose.

[sirs]

I imagine not

[richpo64]

>>The people who currently build houses would build houses. Who else would you expect to build them?<<

Based on what we know of the history of Communism I would guess anybody JS says should build them. People who disagree with his little communist plan would certainly be in for a surprise. "What do you mean you don't know how to build a house"? "Send him to the camp that teaches people how to build houses." Never to be seen again.

It's amazing that there are actually people alive in 2008 who still think Communism is a good idea.

[Plane]

The people who currently build houses would build houses. Who else would you expect to build them?

How do you think they determined the balance of what was needed and who had what ability in the Book of Acts from where that quote is taken?

I will need that chapter and verse , my memory is failing to lead me to it.

If I were a carpenter , I would want some pay to come from my work, not based on what calories were needed to keep me alive , but based on the quality and quanity of my work and the fact that you arn't getting my work if you pay too little.

Who am I going to trust to determine what I need ? I like McCain , I even trust him , but not nearly that much. How am I goiing to feel when the government is run by people I can't vote for? This happens now and then you know.

[_JS]

The people who currently build houses would build houses. Who else would you expect to build them?

How do you think they determined the balance of what was needed and who had what ability in the Book of Acts from where that quote is taken?

I will need that chapter and verse , my memory is failing to lead me to it.

If I were a carpenter , I would want some pay to come from my work, not based on what calories were needed to keep me alive , but based on the quality and quanity of my work and the fact that you arn't getting my work if you pay too little.

Who am I going to trust to determine what I need ? I like McCain , I even trust him , but not nearly that much. How am I goiing to feel when the government is run by people I can't vote for? This happens now and then you know.

Acts 2:44-45

44 All who believed were together and had all things in common;
45 they would sell their property and possessions and divide them among all according to each one's need.

Acts 4:34-35

34 There was no needy person among them, for those who owned property or houses would sell them, bring the proceeds of the sale,
35 and put them at the feet of the apostles, and they were distributed to each according to need.

And to answer Rich, it amazes me that this is 2008 and anyone who calls himself a follower of Christ would not subscribe to a system where "There was no needy person among them."

[sirs]

Subscribe to a system, where you personally can help the needy...yes.  Mandate that everyone else do as well.....NO.  That is NOT what Christ taught.  At least not in any Christian Church, Calvary Church, Church Camp, or Bible Study I ever attended

[richpo64]

A communist quoting the Bible. Considering the lack of understanding it takes to be a communist, the Bible is way out of his pay grade.

[Plane]

The people who currently build houses would build houses. Who else would you expect to build them?

How do you think they determined the balance of what was needed and who had what ability in the Book of Acts from where that quote is taken?

I will need that chapter and verse , my memory is failing to lead me to it.

If I were a carpenter , I would want some pay to come from my work, not based on what calories were needed to keep me alive , but based on the quality and quanity of my work and the fact that you arn't getting my work if you pay too little.

Who am I going to trust to determine what I need ? I like McCain , I even trust him , but not nearly that much. How am I goiing to feel when the government is run by people I can't vote for? This happens now and then you know.

Acts 2:44-45

44 All who believed were together and had all things in common;
45 they would sell their property and possessions and divide them among all according to each one's need.

Acts 4:34-35

34 There was no needy person among them, for those who owned property or houses would sell them, bring the proceeds of the sale,
35 and put them at the feet of the apostles, and they were distributed to each according to need.

And to answer Rich, it amazes me that this is 2008 and anyone who calls himself a follower of Christ would not subscribe to a system where "There was no needy person among them."

A church can still do this , a few still do .

If you really like the system you are free to join one of them , or found one.

But one thing that absolutely did not happen was an abolishment of private property.

It was a volentary system , read the last words that Annanias heard , he could have given any part or kept the whole , but he stood condemmed of giveing part and calling it the whole .

I have absolutely no objection to Churches however big or small throwing large or small amounts of resorces into a common pot and living in communal splendor .

I have extreme objection to abolishing private property on non volenteers.

Someone who gives much or even all in service of his faith and his brethren has done a good thing , someone who takes from his brethren what they are unwilling to give has to justify this theft.

Can you adress the other side of this ?

Proverbs 16:26
The laborer's appetite works for him; his hunger drives him on.

[_JS]

And pray tell, was Christ addressing individuals here? It sure does not sound that way to me.


Matthew 25

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne,
32 and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'
37 Then the righteous 16 will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'
40 And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.'
44 Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?'
45 He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.'
46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

[Xavier_Onassis]

Nope. Abolish private property. From each according to his ability to each according to his need.


This actually doesn't work too well, because some people are quite versatile and can do many things, while others have great needs, but can't do doodly-squat. Eventually, the former get fed up with doing it all for the latter.

What Jesus suggested doesn't work much better.

[sirs]

And pray tell, was Christ addressing individuals here? It sure does not sound that way to me.


Matthew 25

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne,
32 and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'
37 Then the righteous 16 will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'
40 And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.'
44 Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?'
45 He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.'
46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."[/color]

And....................?

[Plane]

And pray tell, was Christ addressing individuals here? It sure does not sound that way to me.


Matthew 25

31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne,
32 and all the nations will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats.
33 He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34 Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world.
35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me,
36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.'
37 Then the righteous 16 will answer him and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you?
39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?'
40 And the king will say to them in reply, 'Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.'
44 Then they will answer and say, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?'
45 He will answer them, 'Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.'
46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Yes , nations do not visit persons in prison  , each of these things mentioned here can be done by individuals and though all of these individuals are gathered together on this occasion , they individually earned their membership in the sheep group or the goat group.

Do you think that damnation is earned on a national level?
Unless you do it makes no sense to consider this passage to be about nation wide behavior.

[Universe Prince]

And pray tell, was Christ addressing individuals here? It sure does not sound that way to me.

Yes, He was. You emphasized "all the nations". It also says "He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats." This, as I understand it, is a process done one at a time. This parable addresses actions that are always portrayed as personal responsibilities. And this parable in Matthew 25 comes after two other parables that are distinctly about individual responsibility. That the parable speaks of groups of individuals does not mean the parable is not about individual responsibility.

Acts 4:34-35

34 There was no needy person among them, for those who owned property or houses would sell them, bring the proceeds of the sale,
35 and put them at the feet of the apostles, and they were distributed to each according to need.

Those who owned property would sell them. They benefited from having property to sell. And they voluntarily did this. No one was forced to do so, nor was there a mandate from the apostles that all Christians must do so. Following shortly after the above quoted passage we see, in Acts 5:3 & 4, this:

But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and keep back part of the price of the land for yourself? While it remained, was it not your own? And after it was sold, was it not in your own control? Why have you conceived this thing in your heart? You have not lied to men but to God."

Private property had not been abolished among the Christians. People who sold what they owned did so by choice, not because the choice was removed from them. Even Ananias was not punished for keeping part of his profit, but for lying about having given all.