Author Topic: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue  (Read 4604 times)

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sirs

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Re: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2008, 01:06:54 AM »
About ten years ago, that is what Rush was ranting about.  When Juniorbush was selected, the Belgian Black Helicopter menace vanished.  

How convenient.....the only source of this latest asanine accusation is Xo's memory   ::)


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2008, 01:49:57 AM »
I really get the feeling that as little as I listen to Rush Limbaugh , you listen to him even less.
This is a very poor caricterisation of Rush , have you an example of his carrying on about black helicopters?


About ten years ago, that is what Rush was ranting about.

When Juniorbush was selected, the Belgian Black Helicopter menace vanished.

I did not record his show then, I do not listen to it more than sporatically now, because he is an idiot, and I already have sufficient exposure to idiocy.


Although I have heard of the "black Helicopters" I havent heard of a Belgin connection to black helicopters. The only real black helicopters I have seen belong to the US Army , the US border patroll or civillian .

And this sounds unlike Rush , do you have some idea of where I could look for evidence that there is a Limbaugh connection to this particular conspiracy theeroy ?

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2008, 12:12:57 PM »
The helicopters were black and unmarked, and it was alleged that they were Belgian, because the capital of the European Community is Brussels and that is in Belgium. It was never clear what they were doing other than observing everyday life and possibly military movements. Most of what I heard about these were from an Airforce Colonel that taught at my university who lived a long way from the campus and spent his drivetime listening to Rush and others like Rush, There was another AF veteran airway science instructor who also lived a ways away in the other direction and these two would get together are compare notes. Basically, the idea was that the US was slowly losing its sovereignty to the EC, which had come to dominate NATO and in the case that US foreign policy varied from NATO policy, the information provided by the black helicopters would assist them in taking over what was required to convince the US govt to go along with whatever devious socialistic nanny state European plan the Belgians and their allies had for us.

The second guy was convinced that the takeover was likely to happen at any moment, but the colonel preferred to say that the other guy was off base a bit, because he was privy to very, very SECRET information that of course, he could never disclose. Strangely, the Colonel preferred Juniorbush to John McCain, although he did say that he thought the bad rumors Rove and others were spreading about him were false. The Colonel was a Vietnam vet who claimed to be a Chippewa Indian (he did not resemble any Indians I know), and was very fond of kayaking. Like McCain, he thought Vietnam was a noble cause that failed because of defeatists in the US. When we pointed out that they had a good six years to win the war before the serious protests started, he would lapse into Deep Secret mode.
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sirs

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Re: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2008, 12:40:25 PM »
So...not only is it simply Xo's memory as supposed validation of this accusation, now it's 2nd hand hearsay memory.       ::)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2008, 07:25:26 PM »
The helicopters were black and unmarked, and it was alleged that they were Belgian, because the capital of the European Community is Brussels and that is in Belgium. It was never clear what they were doing other than observing everyday life and possibly military movements. Most of what I heard about these were from an Airforce Colonel that taught at my university who lived a long way from the campus and spent his drivetime listening to Rush and others like Rush, There was another AF veteran airway science instructor who also lived a ways away in the other direction and these two would get together are compare notes. Basically, the idea was that the US was slowly losing its sovereignty to the EC, which had come to dominate NATO and in the case that US foreign policy varied from NATO policy, the information provided by the black helicopters would assist them in taking over what was required to convince the US govt to go along with whatever devious socialistic nanny state European plan the Belgians and their allies had for us.

The second guy was convinced that the takeover was likely to happen at any moment, but the colonel preferred to say that the other guy was off base a bit, because he was privy to very, very SECRET information that of course, he could never disclose. Strangely, the Colonel preferred Juniorbush to John McCain, although he did say that he thought the bad rumors Rove and others were spreading about him were false. The Colonel was a Vietnam vet who claimed to be a Chippewa Indian (he did not resemble any Indians I know), and was very fond of kayaking. Like McCain, he thought Vietnam was a noble cause that failed because of defeatists in the US. When we pointed out that they had a good six years to win the war before the serious protests started, he would lapse into Deep Secret mode.



Last time I saw a NATO owned aircraft it was an AWACS visiting Wright Pattersn AFB.

Wasn't painted black , had lots of flags painted on it.
Tipical of European based NATO owned aircraft.



Now,...

I can't claim that I listen to Rush Limbaugh a lot , but I do enjoy him when it is convienient to listen to him.

And this story doesn't sound like him.

sirs

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Re: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2008, 07:32:44 PM »
They largely never do
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2008, 08:39:32 PM »
After I heard the two flyboys chatter on about Rush and black helicopters, I listened in to Rush and he discussed the black helicopter stuff with callers.

I am not making this up. Here is a Wikipedia article on the subject.

Note I have never alleged that any part of the actual balck helicopter menace is in any way true. I am simply pointing out that it was a common topic several years ago. Perhaps you guys were playing peewee somethingball when this happened and missed it.

Black helicopter
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jump to: navigation, search
For other uses, see Black helicopter (disambiguation).

The concept of black helicopters became popular in the United States militia movement, and in associated political circles, in the 1990s as an alleged symbol and warning sign of a conspiratorial totalitarian military takeover of part or all of the United States. Rumors would circulate that, for instance, the United Nations patrolled the US with black helicopters, or that federal agents used black helicopters to enforce wildlife laws. The concept springs from the basic truth that many government agencies and corporations do use helicopters, and that some of these helicopters are dark-colored or black. For instance, dark-colored military helicopters were deployed in the standoff at Ruby Ridge.[1]

The phrase "black helicopters" is also sometimes used figuratively to ridicule conspiracy theories in general (see below).

In the United Kingdom, a similar phenomenon known as "phantom helicopters" has been reported since the mid 1970s.[2] This concept relates phantom helicopters to UFOs and alien invasion rather than to martial law.
Contents
[hide]

    * 1 Overview
    * 2 Possible explanations
    * 3 Pejorative use
    * 4 In Popular Culture
    * 5 References
    * 6 External links

[edit] Overview

The issue was first popularized in the early 1990s by Mark Koernke[3] (also known as Mark from Michigan) in appearances on Tom Valentine's radio show and in public speeches which were widely circulated on videocassette, and shortly thereafter by Linda Thompson in her film America Under Siege. In Alex Jones' film Police State 2000 unmarked black helicopters are shown flying low in surprise urban warfare training missions with Delta Force operators and foreign troops.

Two books on the subject: Black Helicopters Over America: Strikeforce for the New World Order (1995), and Black Helicopters II : The End Game Strategy (1998), are from the now-defunct Illuminet Press and were written by Jim Keith.

The greatest media attention to black helicopters was most probably paid in February 1995, when first-term Republican northern Idaho Representative Helen Chenoweth charged that armed federal agents were landing black helicopters on Idaho ranchers' property to enforce the Endangered Species Act. "I have never seen them," Chenoweth said in an interview in The New York Times. "But enough people in my district have become concerned that I can't just ignore it. We do have some proof."[4] Chenoweth made the charges at a press conference without ever consulting with the Department of the Interior.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, which enforces the act, says that they do not own any helicopters nor have ever used any in Idaho. The only green and black military helicopters known to be used in Idaho are used by the National Guard. Black helicopters without FAA-required running lights are regularly used by the drug interdiction office of the DEA. In addition, most U.S. Army helicopters (such as the Black Hawk) are finished in a very dark chocolate or olive matte paint.

Black helicopters have also been reported in the areas where cattle mutilation has been reported.[5] The black helicopters theory resonates well with the belief held by some in the militia movement that troops from the United Nations might invade the United States.

The John Birch Society [6] published an article in The New American detailing how the existence of the covert aircraft was mostly the product of visual errors and fear mongering.

In June 2008, black helicopters were seen flying above buildings in Denver, Colorado.[7]

In late August, 2008, black helicopters were thought to have been seen circling Gwinnett County, Georgia.[citation needed]

In mid-September, 2008, black helicopters were identified over St. Catharines, Ontario.[citation needed]

[edit] Possible explanations

The following explanations have been provided by various organizations and experts, including government agencies, regarding the alleged black helicopters:

    * At least some sightings of black helicopters are very likely to have been helicopters on exercises and/or missions. Some of them are flown by units of the Army National Guard and are actually black (not dark olive or chocolate brown) when seen in ordinary light. The Department of Homeland Security operates a dozen black-and-gold UH-60 Blackhawk under the US Customs Service.[8] The American military does in fact operate helicopters painted in black or dark colors, particularly the Pave Low which is optimized for long-range stealthy insertion and extraction of personnel, including combat search and rescue.

    * U.S. Army and National Guard helicopters painted olive drab will appear to be black in the reddish light of dawn or dusk, or under other low light conditions during the day when their shadow side is viewed against the sky with the naked eye.

    * The U.S. Army regularly conducts both exercises and operational missions in American airspace. Some of these exercises have taken place in densely populated cities, including Los Angeles, New York, Detroit, San Francisco, Oakland and Washington, D.C. Most operational missions are tasked in narcotics interdiction in the American Southwest and out of Florida and Puerto Rico. By extensive use of IR, Radar, GPS and night vision devices, as well as other classified means, they are able to fly in zero visibility conditions with no running lights. At this high intensity level of operation, training is necessarily almost as dangerous to pilots, other air traffic, and the public as actual combat. Frequent practice is necessary to retain proficiency. Frequent practice results in frequent sightings by concerned members of the public.

    * Many defense contractors and helicopter manufacturers also conduct public flight testing of aircraft and components or fly aircraft in public view to test ranges or other corporate airfields for training or demonstrations. Occasionally, some of these aircraft will be made for military clients and are painted in black or dark colors.

    * In the UK, Police Helicopters are required by the CAA to be marked in a standard 'high conspicuosity' paint scheme, to make them more visible and avoid the possibility of air proximity hazards with other low flying aircraft. This paint scheme, also used by UK military training helicopters, requires them to be black on the sides and underneath, and yellow on top. When seen from the ground, these helicopters are black but this is to make them more visible against the sky as a safety feature (and yellow against the ground when seen from above).

[edit] Pejorative use

The term has also been used to ridicule other conspiracy theories or conspiracy theorists. For instance, a Slate article on basketball refereeing, said: "In the wake of this scandal, every game will be in question, and not only by fans disposed to seeing black helicopters outside the arena."[9]

[edit] In Popular Culture

In Robert Doherty's novel, Area 51, portrays Turcotte at the beginning of the book suiting up for a Black Ops mission in a Black helicopter to cover up a cattle mutilation
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Plane

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Re: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue
« Reply #22 on: October 02, 2008, 09:06:11 AM »
After I heard the two flyboys chatter on about Rush and black helicopters, I listened in to Rush and he discussed the black helicopter stuff with callers.


I didn't think you were making it up , it is the Rush connection I doubt.

But Rush will get silly with callers sometimes , some callers deserve it.

In the real world black is just a color scheme option for a Helicopter , if you own a helicopter it can be colored any way you please.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue
« Reply #23 on: October 02, 2008, 09:11:42 AM »
In the real world black is just a color scheme option for a Helicopter , if you own a helicopter it can be colored any way you please.

==========================
IN the real world I don't and probably can't, own a military helicopter. These were allegedly military helicopters, painted black because they were on some stealthy mission.

I never saw one. This was an example of the sort of weird stuff that has been on Rush's show over the years. Callers telling him about black helicopters, and Rush not telling them they were fruitcakes.

I never said these were a danger or a threat or anything else. This was about 12 years ago, so it's not a concern now, anyway.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 09:13:19 AM by Xavier_Onassis »
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Amianthus

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Re: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue
« Reply #24 on: October 02, 2008, 10:58:01 AM »
These were allegedly military helicopters, painted black because they were on some stealthy mission.

The French sell military helicopters to anyone with enough money. Maryland purchased a bunch of them for the State Police and hospital rescue equipment.

The French DID remove the armament first, though.

They purchased the Dauphin, which is an unarmed version of the Panther
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Plane

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Re: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue
« Reply #25 on: October 02, 2008, 11:04:39 AM »
In the real world black is just a color scheme option for a Helicopter , if you own a helicopter it can be colored any way you please.

==========================
IN the real world I don't and probably can't, own a military helicopter. These were allegedly military helicopters, painted black because they were on some stealthy mission.

I never saw one. This was an example of the sort of weird stuff that has been on Rush's show over the years. Callers telling him about black helicopters, and Rush not telling them they were fruitcakes.

I never said these were a danger or a threat or anything else. This was about 12 years ago, so it's not a concern now, anyway.


It depends on what you want .

If you seriously want a helicopter you can get one , but you will have to figure out how to make it pay for itself , this isn't easy, not worth the dedication for most of us.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue
« Reply #26 on: October 02, 2008, 11:06:22 AM »
I said I personally would not be able to buy and, more specifically, use a military helicopter.

First, they are insanely expensive. Then you need a license, and insurance, and I am sure that the various federal, state and local governments would have many, many obstacles that would in effect make it impossible. It does not trouble me that the French sell the Maryland cops helicopters. I bet Bell or Sikorsry would sell them too, just at a higher price.

The Miami-Dade cops have too many of these and are always hovering over my neighborhood waka-waka-waka for up to an hour at a time. After a particularly long period of low level hovering, I got the pilot's attention withj a cheap laser flashlight and flipped him the bird. He then flew off.
  
Not that I want to own or fly one. The main point here is that there WAS a major paranoid story about black helicopters seeking to dominate the country and that it was the topic of discussion on Rush Limbaugh's radio show for a certain period, I did not make it up, not at any time did I think it was in any way important.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2008, 11:09:06 AM by Xavier_Onassis »
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sirs

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Re: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue
« Reply #27 on: October 02, 2008, 03:38:11 PM »
Actually, the main point here is that you have 3rd person hearsay of something you alone claim Rush of doing 10+years ago.  All the while conservatives and those who tend to know Rush a tad better than you, have no such recollection at all.  If there were such "dittoheads", they'd be proudly parroting MahaRushie.  However, the only ones that parrot this nonsense are those that hate Rush.  I think you can do the math
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue
« Reply #28 on: October 02, 2008, 03:56:43 PM »
IT is MY post, the the main point is what I say it is.

This was years and years ago, and as the wikipedia entry attests, I did not invent it., nor do I claim that there ever was any danger of Belgians overthrowing the government with their stupid black helicopters.

What the crap is wrong with you? Why do you keep showing your abysmal ignorance over things that have zero importance?




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Amianthus

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Re: I wonder if the country will ever get a clue
« Reply #29 on: October 02, 2008, 04:12:32 PM »
This was years and years ago, and as the wikipedia entry attests, I did not invent it., nor do I claim that there ever was any danger of Belgians overthrowing the government with their stupid black helicopters.

And yet, the Wikipedia article makes no mention of Rush. They do talk about another radio show host, Tom Valentine. Perhaps you are confused as to who brought it up on the radio?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)