Author Topic: We're fucked  (Read 15929 times)

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R.R.

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We're fucked
« on: October 20, 2008, 07:52:02 PM »
Obama is going to win in a landslide.

I voted early today. When I got there, the man said it would be about an hour wait. So I said, what the hell, I'll wait. Three hours later I emerged from the voting booth. The turnout was huge. People were lined up out the front door and around the building. All four parking lots were full. Obama stickers were on every other car. It was more turn out than I've ever seen before. Not one person looked remotely Republican. When I voted in 04, you could tell it was probably 51% Republican, with a much lower turnout. This time, I couldn't make out any Republicans. Obama has this one, and I don't think it's even going to be close.

Cynthia

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #1 on: October 20, 2008, 08:01:32 PM »
Obama is going to win in a landslide.

I voted early today. When I got there, the man said it would be about an hour wait. So I said, what the hell, I'll wait. Three hours later I emerged from the voting booth. The turnout was huge. People were lined up out the front door and around the building. All four parking lots were full. Obama stickers were on every other car. It was more turn out than I've ever seen before. Not one person looked remotely Republican. When I voted in 04, you could tell it was probably 51% Republican, with a much lower turnout. This time, I couldn't make out any Republicans. Obama has this one, and I don't think it's even going to be close.

Yep, this is what I see in my city and state.

Let's just pray we are going to experience positive changes.

Cindy

Brassmask

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #2 on: October 20, 2008, 08:07:29 PM »
What does a Republican look like?

Cynthia

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2008, 08:10:16 PM »
What does a Republican look like?

What does Obama look like, is the real question to ask? So many people, many of whom are/were republicans, are voting for Obama. I know several in my circle of friends.

Socialism just doesn't seem to bother people. OK, then all you rich people...start getting ready to share the wealth.

Hard work isn't going to be worth the effort...so why try?

Brassmask

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2008, 08:24:28 PM »
What does a Republican look like?

What does Obama look like, is the real question to ask? So many people, many of whom are/were republicans, are voting for Obama. I know several in my circle of friends.

Socialism just doesn't seem to bother people. OK, then all you rich people...start getting ready to share the wealth.

Hard work isn't going to be worth the effort...so why try?

That socialism charge is such utter nonsense.

McCain voted for the 750 billion dollars that "shared the wealth" with the banks.  Where were the charges of "socialism" when the banks and the insurance companies having the wealth shared with them?

Utter hypocrisy from those of you on the right.

I would submit that you guys are operating under a fallacy that the Obama plan calls for your "wealth" to be shared.  You don't have any wealth.  The top 5% have all the "wealth".  The vulgar, disgusting, stolen wealth

Cynthia

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #5 on: October 20, 2008, 08:52:13 PM »
What does a Republican look like?

What does Obama look like, is the real question to ask? So many people, many of whom are/were republicans, are voting for Obama. I know several in my circle of friends.

Socialism just doesn't seem to bother people. OK, then all you rich people...start getting ready to share the wealth.

Hard work isn't going to be worth the effort...so why try?

That socialism charge is such utter nonsense.

McCain voted for the 750 billion dollars that "shared the wealth" with the banks.  Where were the charges of "socialism" when the banks and the insurance companies having the wealth shared with them?

Utter hypocrisy from those of you on the right.

I would submit that you guys are operating under a fallacy that the Obama plan calls for your "wealth" to be shared.  You don't have any wealth.  The top 5% have all the "wealth".  The vulgar, disgusting, stolen wealth

But, Brass, if you were at that level of wealth, would you want to share the wealth?
Don't you see why it's not a good idea.

Why work towards a higher level of performance, if your "wealth" is going to go to those who really do not have to work as hard now because YOU are guarenteed "help" from the TOP folks.

Bottom line; middle income household families come out better under Obama.

High income families come out better under McCain.

But, be aware of the bait and switch. Does Obama want America to maintain a strong military?

I know he speaks highly of teachers, but so does McCain, for that matter...and it doesn't matter who is president on that issue. I realize that the act was set up for improvement, but damn it, I can't find one thing in the act to support what is happening to public schools across the country.

I will see how Obama makes our world best practices better when he is elected.

Brassie, I hate rhetoric, I do.

I dance swaying my skirt to the beat of the tune played across this nation --via media, spread of word, and inside evidence?

If a candidate is to be believed, I'll continue to dance sans the music.

But, Bush did a bad, bad thing. He turned Americans agasint not only Republicans, he turned them against keeping the nation secure.

Double whammy isn't a good thing. It's one thing to stand on the platform for national security,the rights of the unborn. IT's another to cram it down our throats. Tension has been the only buzz word I can think of to describe these past 8 years.

But, I worry about Obama's ability to make those "promises" come to fruition.

He'll win. We'll watch. I will continue to pray.

Ironically, I will not be praying along with those Christians who voted for Bush.

Let the earth come together. Bush pulled the planet apart for 8 years. I have never seen a rush for a newbie as I see now.

I have a hope that Obama will rise to the occasion---because he has something that Bush did not have;

Intelligence.

Xavier_Onassis

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #6 on: October 20, 2008, 09:11:10 PM »
This entire "Share the wealth" bit is totally bogus.

McCain himself said he was against the Bush tacx cuts because they almost entirelu benefited the wealthiest people.
Only recently, when he craved the nomination and the money to run did he decide that the Bush tax cuts had somehow become fair and just.

But there SHOULD be a greater sharing of the wealth. When a CEO makes hundreds of times what a factory worker makes, that is unfair.
When all the increase in productivity goes to the execs, that's not fair.
When those AIG execs went out to California to a after the government bailed their sorry asses out with OUR TAX MONEY, that was unfair.

The pie will not grow forever. We cannot sustain a growth forever, The resources are just not there,

Time for the fatcats to share.
"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."

Lanya

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2008, 09:30:43 PM »
I guess if you don't want to invest in the infrastructure of the country, its schools, teachers, power grids, etc., you should move to a country with much more lax standards.  Places where roads aren't safe, the water is dirty, the meat isn't inspected, the police are corrupt, no fire departments, and so on.  Everyone who shared a mite of their tax dollars in years past didn't say, "Hey. I got mine, to hell with you."  I'm sure some did, but it didn't seem to be so fashionable to come right out and say it. 
 And so we shouldn't say that either if we achieve a comfortable income.  We are Americans. We do owe it to our country to leave it a little better than when we got here---or at least try to.   
Planned Parenthood is America’s most trusted provider of reproductive health care.

Brassmask

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #8 on: October 20, 2008, 09:33:04 PM »
Quote
But, Brass, if you were at that level of wealth, would you want to share the wealth?

WITHOUT A DOUBT.

If I was worth a billion dollars, I wouldn't bitch about paying a larger share.  In fact, I wish I WAS that rich so that I COULD PAY THAT MUCH.

A billionaire shouldn't be crying about losing a substantial amount of his money when that substantial amount lost leaves him still with more money than most countries' GDP's.

And how anyone in this forum can cry about billionaires losing a few mill to the betterment of the country is beyond.  Do any of you honestly believe that you'll ever be that rich?

Michael Tee

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #9 on: October 20, 2008, 09:46:39 PM »
<<Socialism just doesn't seem to bother people. OK, then all you rich people...start getting ready to share the wealth. >>

You are so far from socialism, even with Obama as President, that it just boggles the mind that you worry about it.  Obama has never advocated socialism.

What you are calling "socialism" is the idea of a graduated income tax (called a "progressive" income tax in the U.S.) which has been a fixture of the U.S. and Canadian income tax systems since at least the 1920s.  Most of the world accepts the principle of taxation that the wealthier classes with the higher disposable income pay a larger percentage of that income in taxes than do the poorer classes.

Socialism is state ownership of the means of production.  I believe Bernie Saunders of Vermont is the only self-proclaimed socialist senator in the U.S. Senate.  For all intents and purposes the Socialist Party USA is dead, and only tiny splinter organizations such as the PLP (Progressive Labor Party,) the SWP (Socialist Workers Party) and the U.S. Marxist-Leninist Organization (USMLO,) the successor to the Marxist-Leninist Party, whose website is at http://www.usmlo.org/ ,  play an active socialist role in the USA, but they have shrunk away to almost nothing since the late 1960s and early 1070s and confine themselves mostly to publishing and labour union infiltrating and organizing activities.  Socialism in the U.S.A. at this point in time seems to be pretty much of a spent force.

richpo64

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #10 on: October 20, 2008, 11:16:53 PM »
Here in Northeast Florida it will be McCain by a wide margin. you see the occasional BHO pumper sticker but no signs. None.

In Ohio, at least in the suburbs of Cleveland it's McCain, but Cleveland itself is full of Black folk so I imagine it will go Obama. I'm willing to bet there will be more votes cast than voters in Cuyahoga County (Cleveland and some suburbs). That is if they can figure out the voting machines this time.

BT

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2008, 01:03:58 AM »
Quote
And how anyone in this forum can cry about billionaires losing a few mill to the betterment of the country is beyond.  Do any of you honestly believe that you'll ever be that rich?

It's not about being that rich. It's about being that fair. I don't believe anyone should be taxed more percentage wise than another person. I don't believe anyone should be taxed less percentage wise than another person.

When they set millage rates they are set according to home value but everyone pays  the same millage rate.

When you buy ground beef at the store you pay the same as a rich guy or a poor guy.

When you pay sales tax you pay the same as the rich guy or the poor guy.

The only tax that is tiered is the income tax and that is setup that way so congress can sell favors.

So the progressive tax is corrupt because those who legislate it are corrupted by the power that comes with setting those rates.

Why do you think the presidency is worth the price tag of close to a billion dollars?

Why do congressmen have reelection war chests of millions of dollars?

« Last Edit: October 21, 2008, 01:05:56 AM by BT »

sirs

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #12 on: October 21, 2008, 01:43:44 AM »
What does a Republican look like?

What does Obama look like, is the real question to ask? So many people, many of whom are/were republicans, are voting for Obama. I know several in my circle of friends.  Socialism just doesn't seem to bother people. OK, then all you rich people...start getting ready to share the wealth.  Hard work isn't going to be worth the effort...so why try?

That socialism charge is such utter nonsense.

Not when you look at his record & rhetoric.  It's only nonsense to some hard core leftists who don't think he goes far enough.  But for the rest of the country, it's a socialist agenda, very up front with the foundation of of wealth redistribution.  And let's not forget the anti 1st amendment Fairness Doctrine, just itching to be put back in, as soon as the left has control



"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Plane

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #13 on: October 21, 2008, 04:15:37 AM »
I would submit that you guys are operating under a fallacy that the Obama plan calls for your "wealth" to be shared.  You don't have any wealth.  The top 5% have all the "wealth".  The vulgar, disgusting, stolen wealth


What makes it" vulgar "and what makes it" stolen "?


Do you think that that particular money would exist if someone had not made it?

Michael Tee

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Re: We're fucked
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2008, 11:08:08 AM »
<<When they set millage rates they are set according to home value but everyone pays  the same millage rate.>>

That's because of a feeling that if you can't afford to live in a big house and pay the taxes on it, you should move to a smaller house or just rent a place.  There are no equity issues involved other than the fairness that if you have more, you pay more.  If you have more house, you pay more municipal tax on it.

<<When you buy ground beef at the store you pay the same as a rich guy or a poor guy.>>

That's because the butcher paid the same per pound to the wholesaler - - but the butcher doesn't just stock one kind of meat.  The rich pay more for their filet mignon than the poor pay for their cheaper cuts.

<<When you pay sales tax you pay the same as the rich guy or the poor guy.>>

And that's the biggest criticism of the sales tax and why it's probably the most unpopular of all taxes.  (Not that there are any really popular taxes!)  It's basically a tax on the poor, the rich don't give a shit but it really eats into the poor man's budget and it's virtually unavoidable.

<<The only tax that is tiered is the income tax and that is setup that way so congress can sell favors.>>

That's the first time I've heard THAT argument.  In Canada, the income tax began as the Income War Tax Act during WWI and was meant to be temporary, to end when the war was over.  Its obvious purpose was to raise funds for the war.  I don't know if the original tax was graduated, but it was certainly graduated (progressive or tiered) by the 1920s.  Even the flat-tax advocates I've heard argue on the basis of fairness and simplification, not on nefarious influence-peddling.   Where do you get this from?

<<So the progressive tax is corrupt because those who legislate it are corrupted by the power that comes with setting those rates.>>

I tell you frankly, that's the craziest argument I've ever heard on the subject.  The unfairness of a flat tax rate is so obvious that it outshines any other solution but a graduated income tax.  The principle is as old as the Biblical parable of the widow's mite and that principle must have been ancient wisdom by the time that Jesus articulated it in the parable.

<<Why do you think the presidency is worth the price tag of close to a billion dollars?>>

Your tongue was in your cheek as you typed that, wasn't it?

<<Why do congressmen have reelection war chests of millions of dollars? >>

For the most corrupt and venal reasons imaginable if that money came from the rich or other special interests, but surely there are many hundreds or even thousands of corrupt and venal things that a congressman can do for his donors, of which adjusting the income tax rates is only one.