Author Topic: California judge says no to homeschooling  (Read 111260 times)

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Cynthia

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Re: California judge says no to homeschooling
« Reply #315 on: March 26, 2008, 01:57:44 PM »

My passionate stance here is WHY CAN'T WE FIX THE PS system so families that can not homeschool, or move their children around the city (vouchers) can still get the best??


We can. And there are people trying. But there is a lot of opposition to change by the established order, which is to say school boards and teachers' unions.


I say we need to support what is already part of a great infrastructure. Teh Public Schools. The way the government is going about it, isn't good enough. That's my beef.


The way the federal government goes about it will never be good enough, imo. It shouldn't even be meddling in the issue. Education at the local level needs local solutions.

The local gov. is what I am also referring to, though UP>

We need help with this problem.
I guess I don't see the issue of the union being against anyone in all of this. If you are referring to the union making sure bad teachers stay on the job...that's not enough, UP. . .with all due respect. It's not just about that.

The problem lies more in THE NCLB ACT, as I stated in the post above. (in bold font).


Amianthus

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Re: California judge says no to homeschooling
« Reply #316 on: March 26, 2008, 02:28:54 PM »
The issue I have is based on some of the "provisions" within the act itself. Public school teachers are  limited in what they can teach.  Reading, and Math. That's a crime! We used to teach it all! That's my beef!  I believe that "crime" to be the fault of an unreasonable and unjust pressure to score high OR HIT THE ROAD mentality.

That is not true.

As a matter of fact, science is one of the mandatory tests under NCLB.

And the curriculum is decided by the states, not by the federal government - it's not mandated in the NCLB act AT ALL.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Cynthia

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Re: California judge says no to homeschooling
« Reply #317 on: March 26, 2008, 05:12:12 PM »
The issue I have is based on some of the "provisions" within the act itself. Public school teachers are  limited in what they can teach.  Reading, and Math. That's a crime! We used to teach it all! That's my beef!  I believe that "crime" to be the fault of an unreasonable and unjust pressure to score high OR HIT THE ROAD mentality.

That is not true.

As a matter of fact, science is one of the mandatory tests under NCLB.

And the curriculum is decided by the states, not by the federal government - it's not mandated in the NCLB act AT ALL.

Ami,
I am not saying that the NCLB act is responsible for dictating what we teach. Sure, in our district
the SBA does test Science, although the scores in that area of the test do not count  in terms of meeting AYP or not meeting AYP.
But, when a principal and/or a district adopts a new reading program that has been "proven" to work, as is the case in our school district and many across the nation,(especially in Reading First schools) it comes with a price. We are mandated to teach 120 minutes in reading and 120 minutes in math, with a bit of writing on the side. There is no time for a richness in the other subject areas, as there once was in our schools.

 Well and fine. I am all for new programs that work,et etc etc...I like the one we have chosen. It's really a great way to teach phonics, phonemic awareness, etc. Not to mention the new math programs (constructivisim at its best).
But, there is a unreasonable pressure to make sure that every child reads at the same level by a given date OR ELSE... And, along with that pressure, our hands are tied when it comes to teaching quality subjects like science, social studies, music, art and believe it or not, bi-lingual ed. (yes, bi-lingual ed in OUR STATE??). Believe it.

I blame the NCLB act for that. The act is not a bad idea. I have said that before, but what has come out of the whole thing, as I posted earlier today with regard to unreasonable expectations and punitive actions, is simply not right nor is it supportive. It's not good enough, Ami.
The NCLB act is a great idea, sure. Leaving no child behind is the only way to go! The funding seems to be an issue, as well.


Sure, get rid of bad teachers. I am all for that too. I am not arguing that. I am concerned that the states are under an unreasonable stressful pressure, which eventually trickles down to the child...and why? So we don't leave children behind. The system needs work, that's all I am saying, adn have been. My biggest gripe is what it is doing to the schools. You don't see what I see. In theory, all is of course going to sound so right on. I have a feeling our little school in our little village is not any different from a great number of schools in a great number of villages around this  country. It's a shame and in so many ways, NCLB's is to blame.   

I am in contact with a couple of districts in California that are experiencing the similar problems. Sure, the mandates come from local gov.  The bottom line is that the NCLB act has within its own bottom line unreasonable expectations and unjust punitive actions.

In my school for example, we were told NOT TO TEACH SCIENCE this year for the first time. WHAT? Why? Because if we don't get those scores way up....we are punished. My god. Does the government really believe that it comes down to bad teaching? There is so much more. There is financial support, reduction of classroom sizes, the list goes on and on....

We have critical issues within our school community. Those issues probably do not exist in your average middle income or above groups or subgroups. Even if they do, the reactions on the part of any government should not interfere with the process of a good education.

Mandates beget mandates and someone loses in the end..if those mandates are not reasonable. How is the act directily going to help the average public school kid?
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 05:19:23 PM by Cynthia »

Amianthus

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Re: California judge says no to homeschooling
« Reply #318 on: March 26, 2008, 05:27:58 PM »
I am not saying that the NCLB act is responsible for dictating what we teach. Sure, in our district
the SBA does test Science, although the scores in that area of the test do not count  in terms of meeting AYP or not meeting AYP.

Starting with this school year (07-08), the NCLB mandates science testing. And the definition of a school's "meeting AYP" is, again, defined by the state, not the NCLB.

We are mandated to teach 120 minutes in reading and 120 minutes in math, with a bit of writing on the side. There is no time for a richness in the other subject areas, as there once was in our schools.
But, there is a unreasonable pressure to make sure that every child reads at the same level by a given date OR ELSE...

So, what has the state decided your "or else" is? Again, this is a state-defined action, not part of NCLB.

I blame the NCLB act for that. The act is not a bad idea. I have said that before, but what has come out of the whole thing, as I posted earlier today with regard to unreasonable expectations and punitive actions, is simply not right nor is it supportive. It's not good enough, Ami.

What "punitive actions" does the NCLB act require? All I can see is that if the school does not meet it's AYP two years in a row, it's required to allow parents other options - vouchers, homeschooling, allowing students to transfer to other schools, etc. Why do you consider competition (especially competition to enrich the student's education) to be "punitive"?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Amianthus

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Re: California judge says no to homeschooling
« Reply #319 on: March 26, 2008, 05:29:22 PM »
But, there is a unreasonable pressure to make sure that every child reads at the same level by a given date OR ELSE...

Oh yeah, BTW, this is an incorrect statement anyway. NCLB mandates a three tier level of achievement for students, not a single standard.
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Cynthia

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Re: California judge says no to homeschooling
« Reply #320 on: March 26, 2008, 05:40:01 PM »
I am not saying that the NCLB act is responsible for dictating what we teach. Sure, in our district
the SBA does test Science, although the scores in that area of the test do not count  in terms of meeting AYP or not meeting AYP.

Starting with this school year (07-08), the NCLB mandates science testing. And the definition of a school's "meeting AYP" is, again, defined by the state, not the NCLB.

We are mandated to teach 120 minutes in reading and 120 minutes in math, with a bit of writing on the side. There is no time for a richness in the other subject areas, as there once was in our schools.
But, there is a unreasonable pressure to make sure that every child reads at the same level by a given date OR ELSE...

So, what has the state decided your "or else" is? Again, this is a state-defined action, not part of NCLB.

I blame the NCLB act for that. The act is not a bad idea. I have said that before, but what has come out of the whole thing, as I posted earlier today with regard to unreasonable expectations and punitive actions, is simply not right nor is it supportive. It's not good enough, Ami.

What "punitive actions" does the NCLB act require? All I can see is that if the school does not meet it's AYP two years in a row, it's required to allow parents other options - vouchers, homeschooling, allowing students to transfer to other schools, etc. Why do you consider competition (especially competition to enrich the student's education) to be "punitive"?


There is nothing wrong with punitive actions if they are reasonable.

There is nothing wrong with offering vouchers and home schooling.

But, do the expectations from the NCLB act fit the punishment?

I think not.

I also say that not all children can skip across town because the school they are attending has not met AYP. Hell, MOST schools are not meeting AYP. There is a reason for this. The expectations ARE NOT YOUR USUAL EXPECTATIONS that can be reached, Ami! Your argument also seems to imply that it comes down to

a) why not just punish bad schools? 
b) why not offer a better education somewhere else?

Too easy. Yet a perfect argument. But not in this case, Ami.
 

I have posted the facts you ask for here before, and I am going to find the stats on this, Ami.

I'll be back. 

Amianthus

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Re: California judge says no to homeschooling
« Reply #321 on: March 26, 2008, 07:19:28 PM »
But, do the expectations from the NCLB act fit the punishment?

I think not.

What punishment are you talking about, and what expectations from NCLB are being punished?

Hell, MOST schools are not meeting AYP. There is a reason for this. The expectations ARE NOT YOUR USUAL EXPECTATIONS that can be reached, Ami!

Then New Mexico must have a lot of problems; most of the schools in Minnesota met their AYP.

And again, the "expectations" are set by the state, not the NCLB act. Perhaps your state should set more reasonable expectations?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Cynthia

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Re: California judge says no to homeschooling
« Reply #322 on: March 26, 2008, 07:37:01 PM »
On Jan. 8, 2002, President Bush signed into law the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001. This new law embodies his education reform plan and is the most sweeping reform of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA) since it was enacted in 1965. The new law redefines the federal government's role in kindergarten-through-grade-12 education. Designed to help close the achievement gap between disadvantaged and minority students and their peers, the new law will change the culture of America's schools so that they define their success in terms of student achievement and invest in the achievement of every child. The act is based on four basic principles: stronger accountability for results, increased flexibility and local control, expanded options for parents, and an emphasis on teaching methods that have been proven to work.

This sounds so fantastic, on paper. It may have been designed to help, but I have yet to see a helpful or supportive element arise. . It was designed to close the achievement gap between disadvantaged and minority students and their peers. Oh ok. Fantastic! The new law will CHANGE the culture of America?s schools. Designing something to close any gap is just that---a design. That doesn?t make it a complete and viable finished project. 

The first principle of accountability for results involves the creation of standards in each state for what a child should know and learn in reading and math in grades three through eight. 

Reading and Math in grades 3-8?.. Clear and precise statements that we, as educators are ?encouraged? to teach just the basics?
And it appears to, and I do believe completely originated from  the NCLB act.
Again, what a great idea on paper. Creating standards as if we never had those standards before?


With those standards in place, student progress and achievement will be measured according to state tests designed to match those state standards and given to every child, every year.

?Those standards have always been in place?. But, again that sounds good on paper. I like reading it again as I did the first time. 
Ah ...it's so refreshing to read that our president cares so much about children and their education no matter the socio-economic status. Not all kids can voucher their way to a home school. But, that sure sounds good on paper.
OH and by the way, as long as the NCLB act has been on the books, we have yet to see all State tests align to the standards.  Why aren't they aligned? Well, we are told that that little problem is being ?fixed?.
 So, when we do not make AYP even though the problem lies elsewhere, it is ----you guessed it, it becomes the fault of school districts, schools, and teachers.  Hmmm, something is not right in this picture, but who knew?
 Who is going to tell the public that the state just hasn?t fixed that minor problem. (in our state these past few years the problem has been with the alignment in mathematics).

Like all good teachers, and nurturing folks, we are told to be patient.   In the meantime, schools are put on probation, and eventually on placed restrictive action. Why? If we do not meet AYP by one point, the first year and again by another 10+ points the following year to make up for the lost one point. The point system accounts for more than just a test. There is the area of attendance. One sick kid could put us as a school over the top to R1.

By goodness, we were more focused on teaching all the standards before the act made its way into our lives.  Yet, now we see more and more classrooms scrambling to post standards on walls, to teach kids to repeat the standards before every lesson,so that when the state dept walks in, we are not written up AGAIN. If people only knew the half of it. No wonder folks are running like hot cakes to the nearest HOME SCHOOL.  We are losing out ability to teach.


The new law will empower parents, citizens, educators, administrators and policymakers with data from those annual assessments.


Annual assessments?. We test weekly, bi weekly, monthly and each trimester,r depending on the demand. The demand to show scores to parents in the hallway, the demand to prove growth to the State dept. The fulfillment of the required  EPSS. The amount of testing/assessing that happens in your average PS class  would blow your mind. It also takes  up precious teaching time.


When President Bush delivered his education reform proposal to Congress last year, he said, "We must confront the scandal of illiteracy in America, seen most clearly in high-poverty schools, where nearly 70 percent of fourth-graders are unable to read at a basic level." The National Assessment of Educational Progress has found that average reading scores for 17-year-olds have not improved since the 1970s. In 1998, 60 percent of 12th-graders were reading below proficiency. Perhaps even more distressing is that this trend of low performance by our schools reaches back more than two decades, during which time the taxpayers have spent $125 billion on elementary and secondary education.

Ok, so this NCLB act is going to make things better? Seems to me that such a scandal of illiteracy began just about the time when PACMAN was born, ::) and the rest is Game boy history. Come on. Can we not at least be honest here?  Look at some other crucial factors beside a big jump to blame the teacher/school system, alone. Ok, maybe we should have made more home visits to "encourage" children to read more at home. Oh wait, we did that too. hmmm We still 'encourage' kids to read, read, read...instead of watching the tube. Our bad. While I can?t argue with data, I can argue that the data does not necessarily prove that the children can?t read based on a failing system. But, that is what is being argued here and in the national media.


 For years we have been measuring success in schools by how many dollars we spend, how many computers and textbooks we purchase, and how many promising programs we create. Too many of our nation's schools have not measured up because our measures for success have been ineffective.

Oh ok, well, then let?s just TAKE AWAY ALL OF THE ABOVE AND SEE how the system copes.  Hmm, great idea.
 Measuring is Key, if a system wants to solve a problem, sure. I agree.  But what collection of data t shows that we have been spending TOO MUCH? What can the system do without books, computers, and choice programs. The government is sure spending a lot of money on training teachers in these NEW PROGRAMS now.


That's why under the No Child Left Behind Act of 2001, which passed the U.S. Congress with strong bipartisan support, states are required to use a method of measuring student progress that teachers use in their classrooms every day?testing.

And, man oh man, do we test kids!


We need to test children on their academic knowledge and skills for the same reason we take them to the dentist to see whether or not they have cavities?because we need to know. As caring adults, we want the children in our lives to have healthy teeth because we know that their teeth have to last a long time. If the dentist finds that their teeth are not healthy, then we get the cavity filled, and we teach them how to brush correctly, to use dental floss and avoid too much sugar. Children don't like going to the dentist, and we don't like the expense, but we do it because it's the right thing to do

Ouch. That hurts my root canal. Stop it, you?re making me laugh! Get the gas. Get the gas!

Under the No Child Left Behind Act, each state retains the responsibility to decide what their students should learn in each grade. States are to develop rigorous academic standards (most are already doing this), and those standards should drive the curriculum, which, in turn, must drive instruction. Annual statewide assessments will be aligned with the curriculum to provide an external, independent measure of what is going on in the classroom, as well as an early indicator showing when a student needs extra help.
The results of these tests can be used to direct resources, such as after-school tutoring or summer school, toward those who are falling behind. Extra help is not a punishment. It is a responsibility that enables students to catch up and to increase their chances of success during the next school year.

UNDER the NCLB act, not above it, not beside it, not around it?.big bear hunt. UNDER IT!
We assess kids to drive instruction all the time, and frankly, that is a good thing.  In reality, the previous paragraph sounds good on paper, but there?s again more to the story.. We provide kids with extra help as much as possible. Ironically, we had more time and the funds when by offering tutoring and summer school in our district during the years before the NCLB act than we do now.


Successful public schools are not only in the best interest of students, parents and teachers, but they are also important to a strong economy and viable communities.

Yes, they sure are. I concur!

Employers need to have confidence that a high school diploma means something, that a graduate has the knowledge and skills needed to succeed. Members of a community need to have confidence that with each high school graduation, a new group of educated, productive citizens is on its way to taking on important roles in society.


Will they have such confidence when the they find out that the public schools have decided to alter the curriculum in order to appease the NCLB act?s demands to raise reading and math test scores, solely? The children are not getting enough in the current system?and I blame the original act.  There are more children being left behind, because they do not have a competitive edge of their home schooled peers.
Wouldn?t you want your child in public school to have the best?
Well, as it is, they are only receiving a fraction of the best compared to other school systems. I see the only difference being the amount of pressure to make all children to make the ideals that only on paper, a reality.



Life is full of exams, judgment calls and forms. By the time most people reach the age of 20 they have already taken a driving test, filled out a credit card application, signed a lease, and submitted a W-2 form to the IRS. None of these activities is fun. All can be stressful, but they are all part of a life that we accept. In order to provide a quality education for every child in America, we must first test them to find out which children are not learning at the level or pace necessary to keep up.
U.S. Secretary of Education Rod Paige said, "Anyone who opposes annual testing of children is an apologist for a broken system of education that dismisses certain children and classes of children as unteachable."


Well, thank God I am not against testing. I am very much against  not being able to test what we are mandated to teach. Yes, that is one thing that I will not apologize for. http://www.ed.gov/nclb/accountability/ayp/testingforresults.html

sirs

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Re: California judge says no to homeschooling
« Reply #323 on: March 26, 2008, 07:59:29 PM »
Yea, that rant......I mean objective analysis really focused on what reforms are necessary, along with suggestions and plans of implimentation   


 ::)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Cynthia

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Re: California judge says no to homeschooling
« Reply #324 on: March 26, 2008, 08:05:22 PM »
The Theory Behind No Child Left Behind Is Straightforward: The Federal Government Will Ask For Demonstrated Results On The Investment It Makes In Education. Local schools will remain under local control, but instead of just sending checks from Washington and hoping for the best, we are measuring results and holding schools accountable for teaching every student to read, write, add, and subtract.

The fact that the Feds are making it "straightforward", "allowing the local gov to take control", "holding schools accountable for teaching every student to read write and compute.....supports my very point. No wonder there is such a push to only teach the basics. It's right there in print.  My point all along has been that we aren't encouraged to teach a child everything he/she deserves. That is just not acceptable to me. Science and social studies, art, music and second language learning are on the back burner our schools lately. WHY?
Its right in the act. The pressure on public schools from even the State government's point of view...THE PED is to make schools accountable or what?
The What is; PRobationary actions that support NO ONE.
So, natually, school systems are not going to want to teach anything else.


We Must Improve Options For Parents. We must do more to help parents use their options when their children are trapped in struggling schools. We will work with school districts to provide parents with more timely and useful information about their transfer options and, especially in big cities, to help more students take advantage of the free intensive tutoring offered under NCLB.

Get out the "trap remover"! Holy crap! The kids are in danger. Such wording. Give me a break.

We Must Improve Teacher Quality. Bringing every student up to grade level requires a quality teacher in every classroom. President Bush worked with Congress to create a Teacher Incentive Fund that allows States and school districts to reward teachers who demonstrate results for their students and who make the tough decision to teach in the neediest schools.[/b]

That would be ME! Where's my 'incentive, Mr President?


The No Child Left Behind Act Is Changing More Than The Law - It Is Changing A Culture. We are leaving behind the days when schools shuffled children from grade to grade, especially minorities and children who do not speak English at home. We are making it clear that every child can learn, and every school must teach. There can be no compromise on the basic principles of NCLB: Every student must read, write, add, and subtract at grade level - that is not too much to ask.

As I see it, based on what is happening in our New Mexico school district, Bi-Lingual ed. is becoming a way of the past. Sadly. But, you go Mr. Pres. You tell it like it is! The system was a hell of a lot better before you tried to fix it. I am broad stroking here, too, btw, as I do belive that an ACT that is set up by law to help children is a good thing. This NCLB is flawed. Period. I have hope that the new administration will see that schools are running out of options instead of being given more. Isn't that what Bush wants? A better system. We aren't all seeing that. My point.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/10/20061005-2.html.


Cynthia

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Re: California judge says no to homeschooling
« Reply #325 on: March 26, 2008, 08:27:45 PM »
But, do the expectations from the NCLB act fit the punishment?

I think not.

What punishment are you talking about, and what expectations from NCLB are being punished?

Hell, MOST schools are not meeting AYP. There is a reason for this. The expectations ARE NOT YOUR USUAL EXPECTATIONS that can be reached, Ami!

Then New Mexico must have a lot of problems; most of the schools in Minnesota met their AYP.

And again, the "expectations" are set by the state, not the NCLB act. Perhaps your state should set more reasonable expectations?

 When the NCLB act was first enforced and set up in such a way(state handled or not) to meet certain unreasonable expectations the problems began. The NCLB act from it's birth stated that all children no matter what level, or ability, disability must be at the same point/grade level by a particular year. Blood out of a turnip. Water out of a rock.
and sure,
I applaud all the good things I hear and see, sure. The act itself isn't the problem, it is the flawed areas that particulary drive absurd instruction techniques and expectations to win at all costs..

If not, then instead of supporting the schools, teachers, the local governments were ENCOURAGED" to make sure that schools were going to suffer the consequence, with no regard to the details of what goes on in said schools....>There were and still are threats to cut funds, take away good teachers. There is a side bar of punitive actions...indirect, if you will.....when administrators mandate that we only each the basics. That punishes a lot of folks, especially the kids.
Directly or indirectly, NCLB is flawed, Ami.

BTw

Good for your school system, Ami. Kudos. Yes, NM'ican kids are not your typical MN type of kid.
 I am not going to deny that. We do have problems that most of the nation does not.(Mississippi? I guess) So, I speak from my own situtation here. I do. I also have some good things to say about the NCLB act.... but my focus is on those problems I see...problems that have trickled down the pike becasue of teh original act as I see it in the classroom, directly.


 Those problems will not be fixed by simply pressuring schools to only teach the basics. What happened to providing all kids the best, no matter their problems?



Cynthia

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Re: California judge says no to homeschooling
« Reply #326 on: March 26, 2008, 08:29:32 PM »
Yea, that rant......I mean objective analysis really focused on what reforms are necessary, along with suggestions and plans of implimentation   


 ::)

YEs, Sirs.....I am waiting to hear from Hillary or Obama on that one.

I'll keep you informed.

Rantin' on, in the meantime.

Your excuse? I mean your excuse for your rants..ha ha....
Foot in mouth again.... ::)

Hey, btw, I apologized to you for playing with your head recently. I was wrong to make fun of you.

You're a good guy.

I just disagree with you on this one.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2008, 08:31:14 PM by Cynthia »

sirs

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Re: California judge says no to homeschooling
« Reply #327 on: March 26, 2008, 08:33:55 PM »
With all due respect Miss Cynthia, listen to yourself.  School is SUPPOSED to teach the basics.  That's its PRIMARY FUNCTION.  At least it used to be.  All the pie in the sky stuff is cool, and sounds great, but NOT at the expense of teaching the basics.  And trying to inhibit that goal is an absolute detriment to the children

And if you hadn't noticed, I wasn't ranting.  I've consistely referenced suggestions that should be implimented and highligted entities trying to derail such.  So, so much for the "leveling" charge, whatever that was supposed to mean
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Cynthia

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Re: California judge says no to homeschooling
« Reply #328 on: March 26, 2008, 08:42:50 PM »
Basically, boys, this is how I see things.

The NCLB act is the bastard father of a good attempt to father a good kid.

Nothing wrong with bastards.

But, there is something wrong with arrogance and blatant disregard for a child's education.

My main gripe is this;

See to it that the schools in question get more support and less punishment.
See to it that when you say annual testing, YOU MEAN ANNUAL testing.

The rhetoric that fills the lines in teh NCLB act is sickening.

The reality in our school lately is crystal clear;

We are encouraged, and down right asked to only teach the basics.

Ok, so take us all back to the years of the one room school house.

Take away quality and hold up a sign that reads;
Come to OUR school little children....we can offer you more. COme home to the factory where all is well, but don't bring too many other kids with you. Home is where ONLY ONE HEART is raised at at time.

Tongue in cheekie...dental work needed here.
Oh yeah that was in the document I posted..hmmm, clever of the GOV.

Vouchers, etc quick fixes?
Not necessarily true. But the fact that choice is on the table in such a seductive way during such a republican administration...you conservatives are going to jump all over this as if you are in the right.

Right? No, just ignorant. Bush made a few promises for change during his time in the big house.


Oh but then in the wake, all the kids who live in teh real world can take a hike.

I just don't see any magic fix here.

And then here comes the BIG BAD WOLF blowing down the houses of the little schools that coulda woulda ...who wanted to build up a strong structure...but couldnt' stand a chance with the bulldozer that plowed them over.

Cynthia

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Re: California judge says no to homeschooling
« Reply #329 on: March 26, 2008, 08:55:24 PM »
With all due respect Miss Cynthia, listen to yourself.  School is SUPPOSED to teach the basics.  That's its PRIMARY FUNCTION.  At least it used to be.  All the pie in the sky stuff is cool, and sounds great, but NOT at the expense of teaching the basics.  And trying to inhibit that goal is an absolute detriment to the children

And if you hadn't noticed, I wasn't ranting.  I've consistely referenced suggestions that should be implimented and highligted entities trying to derail such.  So, so much for the "leveling" charge, whatever that was supposed to mean

Ok, sirs, I was flippant with you the other evening.
You aren't ranting. Ok you are not.

I am posting what I believe to be my truth and my opinion and based on many facts.

The discussion is a good one.

I listen to myself. I hear that children used to be given many opportunities for learning ALONG SIDE the basics. Hmmm, didn't hear myself say that we  shouldn't teach the basics.

Music for example, is valuable to the brain.
Art is critical.
Science...what child wants to grow up and not learn about the planets, how liquids change and why, how the damn sun works and much more.....
Social Studies.....who in this society wants to send a kids to middle school without any knowledge of what a map is, or how history has changed their own lives. (family is culture, is history, is Social etc)
Who said we should stop these other critical areas of the curriculum?
Many school districts in teh country.

Ok, sirs, if you want that, then fine. You talk about competitiveness. How is a child going to be able to compete in a world if they were not given the chance to understand what they experience in their daily lives; how ice melts, why. How the entire world around them operates?
If you think that the kids can do without...then you have very little idea of the development of a child's mind.

The push right now is that we do away with everything but the basics. I think that is fundamentally wrong.

These days because of an idiot NCLB act, we are in danger of losing a lot more than we thought. I see it. I didn't see that before. I have taught for years, and nothing has changed in terms of high standards. Who the heck thought suddently that the standards were not high enough. If so, then why not work on a way to bring all the elements in full view...in order to work.
I have never seen such a rush to push for a gold ring. WHY? TO PLEASE Bush, that's why. He had to do something as a sitting president, so he jumped on the NCLB act along with Kennedy...and hey. MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

I say that's wrong. Fix the act, let it work, but don't take away.....provide a better way....