Why Obama won't want to debate McCain much

[Plane]

Obama seems like a leftist to some people because ANYONE seems like a leftist to them.

All right ,how many Senators are further left?

[Plane]

If McCain does get elected, he will have only good old racism to thank. Even as we speak, hacks like Karl Rove are dutifully trying to come up with excuses for how you can say you want change from the absolute WORST president in history and still elect his party without being an overt crossburning, noose-knotting racist.

This is prejudice , your shame, no one eleses.

[Xavier_Onassis]

All right ,how many Senators are further left?

Kerry was said to be the furthest left in 2004.

Is there actually valid ranking that everyone agrees on?

Being as I think the country needs what the left offers, and needs nothing of the warmongering crap the right offers, I see this as a plus. But it's done as a part of the oligarchy's ongoing propaganda blitz to enlist the yokels, rubes, hicks and fundies to ignore their own interests and support the oligarchy. as always.

[Michael Tee]

<<Being as I think the country needs what the left offers, and needs nothing of the warmongering crap the right offers, I see this as a plus. But it's done as a part of the oligarchy's ongoing propaganda blitz to enlist the yokels, rubes, hicks and fundies to ignore their own interests and support the oligarchy. as always.>>

If the left weren't so cowardly and began to defend themselves for what they are, instead of running away from it, the yokels, rubes, hicks and fundies would have a different model to look up to.  Put the blame where it belongs - - not on the yokels, etc., not on the RW, but on the so-called left, and its lack of balls.

If they gave it a real effort and the yokels-rube-hick-fundie gang decided to stick with what they have, then America would deserve to suffer under the Republicans but at least (a) the liberals could look in the mirror for once without flinching and (b) the American people would have had a genuine chance to make a real choice presented to them.

In a democracy, people get the kind of government they deserve.  Liberals whine that the Republicans stole two elections.  That's true, but I still blame the libs.  The Republicans can only steal an election when the margins are small.  The aim of the liberals has always been to steal votes from the centre and eke out a narrow victory.  They should be moving the centre to the left, far enough to ensure large, theft-proof majorities.  But to do that would require some courage and some frank speaking.  They shouldn't be afraid to call their opponents tools of the rich, they shouldn't be afraid to engage in overt class warfare, because that's what the rich do all the time, 24/7, only they do it under the table, and they shouldn't be afraid to call the military what it is, a bunch of ignorant, murdering thugs, because as long as the military enjoys a quasi-sacred status, an untouchable status, the War Party will always have a huge advantage - - they will always be able to wrap themselves in the flag and claim that their opponents do not "support the troops" or are "the party of retreat and defeat," etc.  It's an unbreakable formula because even if the Democrats win, they have to wrap themselves in the same flag and embrace the same militarism in order to do so.

[Plane]

<<yokels, rubes, hicks and fundies .>>

 the yokels, rubes, hicks and fundies
 the yokels-rube-hick-fundie gang

Resolved ^ the Left holds the common man in contempt.

[Xavier_Onassis]

Resolved ^ the Left holds the common man in contempt.

Resolved ^ the common man often does contemptible things, like elect puppets of the oligarchy who bugger the currency, start useless wars, and wreck things for those who do not elect said puppets.

One of the unwritten laws of the Universe is that he who does what everyone else does will get what everyone else gets, and that is always the dirty end of the stick.

This nation's economy is founded on people buying crap they cannot afford with money they do not have to impress people they do not know. Those who behave in this fashion will always be screwed.

There are fewer people at the right side of any bell curve. There are people who are elites in every field, and as a rule, it is always better to find out who they are before you assign any job to anyone.

You can take your lawnmower to the shop, or you can get the neighbor's kid to fiddle with it. When you take it to the shop in recognition that the odds are that the professional will fix it faster and better, you are engaging in the process of identifying and employing the elite.

When you vote for someone to serve in your government whose attitude towards government is that the nature of government is always to screw things up, then you have done the opposite, for how is someone who does not even believe that a government CA be competent be expected to aspire to competency?

Do you ask the neighbor to do your root canals? Do you employ the butcher to replace a kidney?
Recognizing that the dentist and the surgeon are better qualified than the neighbor or the butcher is a recognition that elites exist and are useful.

Would you hire a person who believed that dentistry and surgery were impossible to perform at all, and that such things should be left to witch doctors, shamans, and faith healers?

[sirs]

If the left weren't so cowardly and began to defend themselves for what they are, instead of running away from it, the yokels, rubes, hicks and fundies would have a different model to look up to.  Put the blame where it belongs - - not on the yokels, etc., not on the RW, but on the so-called left, and its lack of balls.

Boy oh boy.....how in such agreement I'm in with Tee on this is staggering.  How I do wish the left would truely run on their hard left platform.  Let the people REALLY see how much they despise this country, it's military, and people that don't agree with them in general.  Alas, they continually placate just enough of the rationally minded to still try and stay in power.  The bastards

[Plane]

Resolved ^ the Left holds the common man in contempt.

Resolved ^ the common man often does contemptible things, like elect puppets of the oligarchy who bugger the currency, start useless wars, and wreck things for those who do not elect said puppets.

One of the unwritten laws of the Universe is that he who does what everyone else does will get what everyone else gets, and that is always the dirty end of the stick.

This nation's economy is founded on people buying crap they cannot afford with money they do not have to impress people they do not know. Those who behave in this fashion will always be screwed.

There are fewer people at the right side of any bell curve. There are people who are elites in every field, and as a rule, it is always better to find out who they are before you assign any job to anyone.

You can take your lawnmower to the shop, or you can get the neighbor's kid to fiddle with it. When you take it to the shop in recognition that the odds are that the professional will fix it faster and better, you are engaging in the process of identifying and employing the elite.

When you vote for someone to serve in your government whose attitude towards government is that the nature of government is always to screw things up, then you have done the opposite, for how is someone who does not even believe that a government CA be competent be expected to aspire to competency?

Do you ask the neighbor to do your root canals? Do you employ the butcher to replace a kidney?
Recognizing that the dentist and the surgeon are better qualified than the neighbor or the butcher is a recognition that elites exist and are useful.

Would you hire a person who believed that dentistry and surgery were impossible to perform at all, and that such things should be left to witch doctors, shamans, and faith healers?

So it is resolved that at least yourself as a leftist does hold the common man in contempt , that you do not understand the disadvantage in this is difficult to understand.

I would no more hire a butcher to change out my kidney than I would hire a doctor to shingle my house , the skill sets are not overlapping enough, unfortunately due to government regulation , I am forbidden from hireing someone qualified to wire the space shuttle to wire my house , the pidgionholeing of skills is not always based on competance.

I don't think that study of the law is necessacerily bad training for a lawmaker or executive in government , but to make it such a closed shop seaprates the people from the govbernment and leads to people being in power who do not respect the people s wisdom to decide the course of their own lives. People seem to be returning the favor and are paying little respect to the Congress and presidency , even the judicary nowadays.

It isn't that they are poorly qualified to be in government , it is their contempt itself for the people who choose to raise food or drive trucks for their liveing.

[Michael Tee]

<<Resolved ^ the Left holds the common man in contempt.>>

I think I've been properly rebuked.  I shoulda shown more respect.  These are the guys that fix my car, roof my home, watch over us while we sleep, etc. and if they ever went out on strike, they'd be a lot more missed than if the intellectuals ever went out on strike.  Thanks, plane.

They're ripped off and exploited by the ruling class and its "conservative" political apparatus and I place the blame for that squarely on the shoulders of the left-wing intellectuals, who have failed to lead.  I've already posted on where, specifically, they have failed.

[Plane]

<<Resolved ^ the Left holds the common man in contempt.>>

I think I've been properly rebuked.  I shoulda shown more respect.  These are the guys that fix my car, roof my home, watch over us while we sleep, etc. and if they ever went out on strike, they'd be a lot more missed than if the intellectuals ever went out on strike.  Thanks, plane.

They're ripped off and exploited by the ruling class and its "conservative" political apparatus and I place the blame for that squarely on the shoulders of the left-wing intellectuals, who have failed to lead.  I've already posted on where, specifically, they have failed.

Lead?

[Michael Tee]

<<Lead?>>

Yes, lead.  Like Lenin.  Like Trotsky.  Lead.  Take charge.  Communicate to the masses.   Teach them.  Energize them.

[Plane]

<<Lead?>>

Yes, lead.  Like Lenin.  Like Trotsky.  Lead.  Take charge.  Communicate to the masses.   Teach them.  Energize them.

Needed?

[Michael Tee]

<<Needed?>>

Probably not.  I've got to distinguish my private peeves and irritations at cruelty and stupidity from whether the people have been misled into a truly desperate and intolerable situation.  Things have to get a LOT worse before they can start to become better.

I'd say, America's Third World victims DESPERATELY need a regime change in America but the American people don't need it all that badly, unless they are the morally sensitive types who suffer when atrocities are committed in their names.  Would they be better off with regime change?  Definitely, yes, but they're not all that badly off yet.  It'll get worse, but it'll have to get a lot worse to set a revolutionary chain of events in motion.

[Plane]

<<Needed?>>

Probably not.  I've got to distinguish my private peeves and irritations at cruelty and stupidity from whether the people have been misled into a truly desperate and intolerable situation.  Things have to get a LOT worse before they can start to become better.

I'd say, America's Third World victims DESPERATELY need a regime change in America but the American people don't need it all that badly, unless they are the morally sensitive types who suffer when atrocities are committed in their names.  Would they be better off with regime change?  Definitely, yes, but they're not all that badly off yet.  It'll get worse, but it'll have to get a lot worse to set a revolutionary chain of events in motion.

Since the lifetime of Marx , what has gotten worse?

[Michael Tee]

<<Since the lifetime of Marx , what has gotten worse?>>

Pointless exercise comparing now with then.  I would imagine some places got better, some (Africa) worse, but what's the difference?  The real question isn't "What's got better since the time of Marx?" you might as well as "What's got better since the fall of the Roman Empire?"  The real issue is what's wrong NOW and how can we fix it in the shortest time.