Author Topic: Why so scared of Christmas?  (Read 92163 times)

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Brassmask

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #135 on: January 03, 2008, 09:43:43 PM »
Gads, it's make one get nauseous when the ACLU threatened to take the City of L.A. (or some Southern CA city) to court, because there was a tiny cross, on the much larger emblem on the door, of the patrol car.  Absolutely asanine

SOURCE?

sirs

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #136 on: January 03, 2008, 11:41:12 PM »
I wish to thank Tee & Xo for demonstrating again the point being made, that of multiple names of cities and towns named for Saints and Angels, predominantly by Christian Missionaries & Priests.  Somehow there's no outcry or outrage that such cities & their governments could be offensive to Muslims, Atheists, & non-Christians, while Tee (& like minds) go apoplectic about a small cross, in the background of Police Car door seal.  Again, the Hypocrisy is staggering, though not surprising

and to answer Brass, here are just a few links about the story;

Article

Article

Article

Article

Article
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Amianthus

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #137 on: January 03, 2008, 11:49:34 PM »

I believe the actual expression is "running rough SHOD" rather than "running rough shot" To be roughly shod would entail wearing jackboots or other footwear that might be particularly uncomfortable to those being run over.

---------------------------
True, this is triviial, bit I believe less so than the entire issue of the bogus "War on Christmas".

Indeed the expression is "running rough shod" and I wanted to point that out to sirs, but I knew he would seize on it as some kind of dodging of his "true discussion" (which is entirely bogus).


It's nitpicking on a spelling or grammatical error. I thought you guys didn't like nitpicking?
Do not anticipate trouble, or worry about what may never happen. Keep in the sunlight. (Benjamin Franklin)

Cynthia

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #138 on: January 03, 2008, 11:51:59 PM »
Sirs, PC....you would certainly get my vote if you were to run for any office. ha!

You stand up tall, dear man...every time. Thanks for the stance you take each and every time. I have read you now for 6 years ...and you never fall behind.  You are one who steps up to the plate more than most here....good going.

Great "sources".




Cynthia

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #139 on: January 03, 2008, 11:54:37 PM »
"I thought you guys didn't like nitpicking?"

Those who "nitpick" have very few berries to pick in any race.

I would chalk it up to running out of gas, Ami.

sirs

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #140 on: January 04, 2008, 04:14:11 AM »
Thank you kindly, Miss Cynthia     8)
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

Michael Tee

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #141 on: January 04, 2008, 08:23:06 AM »
<<I wish to thank Tee & Xo for demonstrating again the point being made, that of multiple names of cities and towns named for Saints and Angels, predominantly by Christian Missionaries & Priests.  Somehow there's no outcry or outrage that such cities & their governments could be offensive to Muslims, Atheists, & non-Christians . . . >>

History's a bitch, eh, sirs?  Yes, the city of San Francisco, and many other Californian cities were founded by Franciscan monks.  And, yes, they named the cities they founded after saints.  What a surprise!  Who did you expect them to name their cities after?  Heretics?  Perverts?  Criminals?

Now, of course, here's the rub:  apparently NOBODY is offended by that.  Possibly because people have a reverence for history and the idea of roots in the land that transcends their feelings about religion.  People might like to be reminded that the bustling city of concrete, steel, asphalt and glass didn't always exist, that it goes back in time to a little mission village.  Just as people living in cities with Indian names (Toronto, Mississauga, Chicago) like to think that the history of the land they inhabit also goes back many centuries, way before Columbus, and that many people with many stories to tell lived there before them.  Even when you change a geographical name by law, the inhabitants will stubbornly resist, calling it by the name they know because whatever their origin, that name has become a part of their own background, their own histories.  How many New Yorkers refer even today to "The Avenue of the Americas?" 

The name of one's city is everywhere - - on public property, on private property, in the name of the school district you and your children attended, in the fabric of your own identity - - whether you are a Buddhist, Muslim, Hindu, etc., you are nevertheless a San Franciscan and that is how you identify yourself to the people you meet in your travels anywhere in the world.  On the contrary, the objectionable Nativity Scene is NOT a part of your identity, your school system or anything else, and it occurs annually or otherwise on only the property of YOUR government - - there's nothing inevitable about it, your folks maybe took you every year to see it or maybe you never saw it in your life. 

Of course, YOU are fundamentally unable to appreciate the distinction between place names, which do not result from the actions of any living legislators,  and active, present-day religious actions such as building a Nativity Scene.  Sadly, by failing to recognize the feelings of actual people in real-life situations, by drawing the parallel you did, you have demonstrated yet again how ideology blinds you to reality and to common sense - - the reality in this case being that people do not feel any religious significance based on the religious history of name-places and that despite the historical origins of the name being rooted in religion, the names are just not in fact seen as religious symbols by any significant number of the citizens. 

Of course there are exceptions - - when a name is changed under very contentious circumstances, (think of the change from St. Petersburg to Leningrad,) the old feelings don't die down so fast, and the name DOES have both religious and political potency.  It WILL be changed as one faction or the other gains the upper hand. 

sirs

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #142 on: January 04, 2008, 11:31:19 AM »
Gotta love that rationalizing hypocrisy        :D
"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #143 on: January 04, 2008, 12:07:11 PM »
Out of pure curiosity Sirs, why does this stuff bother you but you can play semantics with "coercive interrogation" tactics and defend the brutal policies of a non-Christian state like Israel with ease?

I'm not nit-picking your arguments as much as pure curiosity over your priorities.

As a Christian, I could honestly care less whether a police department has a Christian symbol on there seal. Indeed, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't want Christianity to be represented by most police forces if I could bother to care that much about it.

And yes, many cities in the United States and especially South America are named after Saints, but it isn't as though Protestants pay any heed to that (or know who most of them are!). There are also a number of streets in the United States (mostly in the Northeast) named after Bobby Sands. How many Americans know who that is? How many would be offended if they did?

I don't see where this line of debate wins anything for Christianity. Moreover, it seems to detract from Christianity's main theme which is God's Love.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

sirs

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #144 on: January 04, 2008, 12:32:39 PM »
Out of pure curiosity Sirs, why does this stuff bother you but you can play semantics with "coercive interrogation" tactics and defend the brutal policies of a non-Christian state like Israel with ease?

Interesting tangent to try and apply to this thread.  Preferrebly, this question belongs in a completely seperate thread, since it's not even apples & Oranges.....it's Apples and Wine.

My "priorities" are to this country 1st and foremost.  As I've already hypothetically referenced, this campaign to try and abolish being offended (since it has prescious little validity with the 1st amendment) is an insidious effort to control more and more people, with the government being the ultimate guide to a country full of automotons. 

Your question about Isreal is completely out of Left field.  Isreal is not america, nor are they practicing, near to your perception IMHO, such brutality of Palestinians, nor do I defend any overt actions of violence or discrimination by Isreal.  I do defend their right to exist, right where they are, and with the borders they have.  when you're surrounded by countries and elements that have been trying to destroy you since the sun rose, your prone to make some excessive choices & judgements in your attempt to survive.  Are some of those choices over the top?  Probably.  Do some of their policies unfairly hurt Palestinians?  Probably  Is it apartheid precisely like South Africa?  No.  But, as i said, that could be better served discussing in a new thread


"The worst form of inequality is to try to make unequal things equal." -- Aristotle

_JS

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #145 on: January 04, 2008, 01:32:40 PM »
*sigh*

No, no, no.

I'm not trying to get into a discussion on Israel. I'm asking about your priorities. Christianity is certainly not a nationalistic religion. Christ did not die for Americans or the United States. Moreover, it is not a religion of pure symbolism to be used by police departments, city governments, or automobile owners.

My question, which you failed to answer, is why do you care about such things? Do you really and earnestly believe that you are helping to take Christ's message to others by arguing that Christmas is under attack?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

The_Professor

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #146 on: January 04, 2008, 01:41:19 PM »
Out of pure curiosity Sirs, why does this stuff bother you but you can play semantics with "coercive interrogation" tactics and defend the brutal policies of a non-Christian state like Israel with ease?

I'm not nit-picking your arguments as much as pure curiosity over your priorities.

As a Christian, I could honestly care less whether a police department has a Christian symbol on there seal. Indeed, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't want Christianity to be represented by most police forces if I could bother to care that much about it.

And yes, many cities in the United States and especially South America are named after Saints, but it isn't as though Protestants pay any heed to that (or know who most of them are!). There are also a number of streets in the United States (mostly in the Northeast) named after Bobby Sands. How many Americans know who that is? How many would be offended if they did?

I don't see where this line of debate wins anything for Christianity. Moreover, it seems to detract from Christianity's main theme which is God's Love.
defend the brutal policies of a non-Christian state like Israel with ease?

Shall I quote you Scripture on supporting Israel, JS?
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                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

_JS

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #147 on: January 04, 2008, 01:52:17 PM »
Out of pure curiosity Sirs, why does this stuff bother you but you can play semantics with "coercive interrogation" tactics and defend the brutal policies of a non-Christian state like Israel with ease?

I'm not nit-picking your arguments as much as pure curiosity over your priorities.

As a Christian, I could honestly care less whether a police department has a Christian symbol on there seal. Indeed, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't want Christianity to be represented by most police forces if I could bother to care that much about it.

And yes, many cities in the United States and especially South America are named after Saints, but it isn't as though Protestants pay any heed to that (or know who most of them are!). There are also a number of streets in the United States (mostly in the Northeast) named after Bobby Sands. How many Americans know who that is? How many would be offended if they did?

I don't see where this line of debate wins anything for Christianity. Moreover, it seems to detract from Christianity's main theme which is God's Love.
defend the brutal policies of a non-Christian state like Israel with ease?

Shall I quote you Scripture on supporting Israel, JS?

Shall I quote you scripture on loving one another Professor? On helping those who are poor (as opposed to forcing them into deprivation)? On loving one's enemy?
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.

The_Professor

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #148 on: January 04, 2008, 01:56:05 PM »
No, you don't. I also concur that is a priority. But, like people, nations are a combination of good and bad. You take the bad with the good. Granted, you work to mitigate the bad and accenuate the good.

You make it sound as if Israel as a nation only commits heineous crimes. Israel, as a State, also performs valuable services for many as well, not only in the confines of the Jewish state.
« Last Edit: January 04, 2008, 04:32:59 PM by The_Professor »
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                                 -- Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D

_JS

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Re: Why so scared of Christmas?
« Reply #149 on: January 04, 2008, 02:06:48 PM »
No, you don't. I also concur that is a priority. But, like people, nations are a combination of good and bad. You take the bad with the good. Granted, you work ot mitigate the bad and accenuate the good.

You make it sound as if Israel as a nation only commits heineous crimes. Isral, as a State, also performs valuable services for many as well, not only in the confines of the Jewish state.

Israel is full of wonderful people who do wonderful things I am sure.

The Government of Israel has done horrendous things and has set about a policy that is completely unjustifiable.

Most South Africans were not terrible people or even terrible Christians.

The South African Nationalist Governments did horrible things and set about horrible policy that was completely unjustifiable.

I recognize the differences, rest assured. Just as in South Africa, many Israelis are beginning to recognize the problems in their own country.
I smell something burning, hope it's just my brains.
They're only dropping peppermints and daisy-chains
   So stuff my nose with garlic
   Coat my eyes with butter
   Fill my ears with silver
   Stick my legs in plaster
   Tell me lies about Vietnam.